Caterham vs Stalker. Who wins ?

[Vovchandr]

620R offered by Hillbank USA. The 6-figure price is a knockdown turnoff, but the car 100% track ready with big brakes, IRS, supercharger ...

IRS in a non CSR?

[KnifeySpoony]

Ya I saw that 620R video and wondered why it was priced so high... I actually thought it maybe was an older pre-brexit video when prices were much higher.

[Bruce K]

The asking price on the www.hillbankusa.com website is $104,950. Of course, I would offer less than that. The 620R with the Sadev box is a rare bird. Christopher John Inc in Florida can import a 620S in the mid-80 thousand range, but not the 620R (per Christopher). All 620's are RHD only (due to the position of the supercharger on the left side of the engine bay, and concomitant lack of space for a steering column there). Therefore, I have considered importing one from England. Most used examples begin in the low 50 thousand pound range and go up from there. That's $70,000 and up, with international shipping to an eastern port costing under $2,000. Once stateside, I have to find out if the car will be treated by officials as a 1966, or as a circa 2015 model. If considered later production, it won't be allowed on the street. I wouldn't be interested in that option. More work to do on this matter. IF ANYONE HAS EXPERIENCE REGARDING IMPORTATION OF A CATERHAM, PLEASE JUMP IN.

[Kitcat]

Why not contact Mark IV? He obviously has experience importing Caterhams. As I recall, someone here bought a new, turnkey Caterham 620 from his place for $75K recently.

[Mark IV]

The 620R is available in the US, we have sold and delivered a few. Yes, RHD only. Caterham will engineer and produce a LHD 620 IF we order 20. Not gonna happen! The picture I posted is a 620R that I am delivering 0n 12-20 to New Jersey.

Be careful, the US authorities are well aware of the actual build year of cars, the VIN indicates the year of manufacture. Maybe you can register it as a "1957 Lotus Seven" but the WMI VIN year indicator will out you. Do you want your car seized? Ask the guys who misrepresented the actual model year of the Mini or Land Rover they imported....the ones that were seized and crushed!

[lucky dawg]

Bruce K - If the car you want to import was ever registered, licensed, assembled, driven, etc. it will not be legal to bring in to the US until it's 25 years old. You could try, but why?

[Croc]

I did a write up to clarify importation rules in a past post #13 at this link:
http://www.usa7s.net/vb/showthread.p...3662#post93662

Federal government deals with importation into the USA. States deal with registration and titling.

You could import a new kit or roller kit with a Manufacturers Certificate of Origin (MCO) but the engines and gearboxes cannot be installed in the car and it is unwise to ship them in the same container as the kit/roller.

You are not going to Federalize an under 25 year old Caterham that is being imported on a fully assembled basis. Thats airbags, bumpers, crash testing, etc.

People have tried to go to Caterham UK and buy direct and then ship to the US but have generally not been successful. Caterham have spent time and effort establishing a dealer network and preserving the rights of those dealers to be exclusive within their country of operation. You might be able to get your kit but not get your MCO. The MCO is essential for getting a title and registration in nearly every state where a car is being titled for the first time, particularly on a car which does not have the usual VIN data plate showing Federal compliance. Sure there are ways around this (picking the state, bonded titling, etc) but its a narrow path.

You could thread a need through this and get the car you want but it will take time and effort.

I would try another Caterham dealer for getting a price on a 620R, as one has already offered above. I know with the low pound to dollar conversion rate, it will be less than $100K although if you are undisciplined with the option list you will reach that number quickly. You will not have immediate gratification as you will have to wait a while but thats the price of paying less.

[Astro Bob]

While responding to this thread, I also wanted to reach out and say hello to Astro Bob - hope that your C7 is treating you and the wife well, while providing some exciting motoring.

I have been debating this exact question for a couple years now. I am getting close to pulling the trigger, and whether my target is a Stalker or a Caterham will likely be the product of my final few moments of hesitation. I have owned 3 Sevens over the years (one so radically rebuilt, it qualifies as a fourth). Each was more powerful than it's predecessor. That means, if I rest my sights on a Caterham, it will need to be a 420R, 480R, R400, R500 or 620R. Choosing the right Brunton is easier. I would want an M-Spec chassis with inboard shocks - after that, the LS engines fitted to most Stalkers are natural born killers, so no real debate on that point. I know it sounds loony, but I am actually considering the lightly-used (mostly for promotion) 620R offered by Hillbank USA. The 6-figure price is a knockdown turnoff, but the car is 100% track ready with big brakes, IRS, supercharger and Sadev no-clutch sequential shifter (clutch to start, but no clutch when shifting up through the gears). The car provides 310 hp, with another 20 likely available with a good tune. The price for a good supercharger and a Sadev sequential is about $20,000, so the price is not just about the Caterham name. A Stalker providing equivalent performance can be had on the used market for half that money, but it will be a rev-lacking, big-footprint vehicle weighing 700 additional pounds, and incapable of providing the same steering feel. It will be a Seven, and one of the best (I call them America's Donkervoort) but at the other end of the spectrum. That said, you can do a lot to perfect a car with a spare 50 large.

Bruce, Happy Holidays! I have been enjoying the 2019 Stingray as a fun bopping around car in the countryside. My wife is not all that excited about riding along and feel exposed in low slung cars so I do most of rides by myself which is still great fun. That 620R at Hillbank would be quite a fun car if you could buy it right. However, I really like the business models of Mark IV in New York and Bruce B. in Washington State. I think they offer good value for the dollar and seem willing to work with customers in a very fair way. Much good luck in your search. Searching is half the fun! Astro Bob

[Lightguy]

A fun video of the 620.

https://youtu.be/MZmc0K8dVJo

Watching these guys bomb around on the street makes one relise just how exposed you are.
I used to race formula cars and we had teathers that "tied" your hands to the streeing wheel in case the car flipped so as to keep your arms from flapping around and getting torn off.

This pic of one stalker for sale has a side roll cage; better but not totally safe.
I also like the front roll hoop and its tie in to the rear hoop.

[Croc]

The Caterham in the Hillbank video just has the standard "track day" roll bar with the cross bracing. You are comparing to a Stalker that has a form of roll cage - side bars, overhead bars, etc. So an apples vs oranges comparison. But you are right - these cars are exposed by nature. The driver is the air bag and the crumple zone. Thats the risk we take. The chassis are immensely strong for their weight but the exposure is a key part of the attraction of these cars.

The tethers you refer to are used on track days in NJ by law. The sevens event at NJMP makes it mandatory to use arm restraints. Caterham sell their own branded version. Gets complicated belting yourself in these days - I have 10 points of attachment to the car - 6pt belt, 2 pt arm restraints, 2 pt Hybrid neck harness