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Thread: One picture says it all

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
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    Shelby Twp, Michigan
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    Quote Originally Posted by timax View Post
    Is bigger , faster , more comfortable ,really better? Im guessing that being into the Lotus 7 design many on here would think not.
    So think about your local Sunday morning windy road. Without breaking any speeding laws which one of the above Porsches would be more fun? If you really think the latest turbo supercar will actually be a more rewarding drive i would say your more a poser than driver. On track anything can be fun when its sorted and your on the limit but i bet the guy in the 1960's porsche driving at the limit is going to have a bigger grin than the Turbo driver who just lapped him without even trying. Its all about fun isnt it? Thats why i drive what i do.
    TIMAX, I challenge your presumption that the fellow in the old Porsche, while being lapped by the driver in the new Porsche, is wearing a silly grin precipitated by spectacular enjoyment. If he is even trying to catch the new Porsche, that expression is a death mask anticipating his demise at the next hot corner. In a Caterham, I once swapped ends, took a shortcut across the infield, and ended up on the line backwards on the far side of a hill! The wide white eyes of oncoming drivers, and the contrastingly narrowed aperture of my sphincter, are experiences I will never forget. In a vintage Porsche, pushed hard, these are familiar sensations. I do not argue that pushing an old Porsche can be a raw, visceral experience, but so is cutlass fighting, and I'm not fond of that, either. Bigger (because of legal requirements, tire width, aero and HP) is not always better, but it's not necessarily something you say no to just because the bar lights came up. You can still have fun with bigger, and I'm not taking this line any further. If you're like me (and therefore certainly no poser), you prefer the handling of Sevens. But a decent Seven of any vintage does not regularly substitute east for west just because of a little throttle lift in a hot apex (discounting my once-in-a-lifetime experience, which was exacerbated by tires wet from morning dew). Sevens are as direction-dependable as a modern Porsche, if not more so, and that's essential to their fun.
    ​CURRENT:
    2015 Alfa Romeo 4C coupe, turbocharged. 6 speed DCT, heims/links, monoballs, swaybars, 2,440 lbs, 312 hp

    1982 Porsche 935 "Flachbau"
    tribute, supercharged & intercooled 964 motor, built G50 trans, Albins LSD, heims/links, 2,500 lbs, 425 hp

    EX Street & Track:
    2004 Ultralite S2K, Honda S2000 drivetrain, Mugen baffled sump,
    transverse/diff braces, heims/links, anti-surge fuel tank, oil accumulator
    2007 Backdraft Racing Roadster, Roush 402, heims/links, Wilwood big brakes
    2008 Lotus Exige S2, supercharged, chargecooler, 346 hp
    1993 Caterham, 1.8 liter Cosworth
    1991 Caterham, 1.7 liter crossflow
    1995 Mazda RX-7 FD, 2.6 liter Wankel, 276 hp
    1987 Dodge Shelby Charger, turbocharged

    1976 Triumph TR-6, Paris blue
    1963 Mini-Cooper S 1071 cc
    1964 Jaguar XKE drophead coupe, 4.2 liter, BRG

    EX Track Only:
    Panoz GTS, car # 23 from Panoz Racing Series, 4.6 liter V8
    2005 Toyota TRD Celica Junior NASCAR, V6 motor, Jericho 4-speed, "Clabber Girl" livery
    2003 OMS D Sport Racer, Yamaha R1 motor, sequential flat-shift trans, mid-rear engine, ALMS coachwork

    ". . . breakin' up is hard to do" Neil Sedaka


  2. #12
    Join Date
    May 2013
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    South Bay, CA
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    Bruce,
    I think maybe timax's point was more general than specific. He did use Porsche as a specific example, but if we consider the argument to encompass all vintage vs. modern comparisons it makes more sense. Or maybe we need to separate road from track. On the street I fully agree with timax that the slower/lighter/etc. car would put a bigger smile on one's face. Can we call that the <8/10's zone? Would you agree the vintage 911 would be more fun up until that point?

    To your point, I have never driven a vintage 911, but it seems there is global consent that the older 911's are death traps at 10/10's. So, surely it would be terrifying knowing you were moments from spinning onto oncoming traffic. However, that's something that could be solved with a lot less than all the extras present on the modern 911's.

    Clearly regulation and business have had a significant (defining?) role in the path of the 911. Maybe we have only our own culture to blame.

    Daniel

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    Sydney Australia
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    Bruce ,
    "TIMAX, I challenge your presumption that the fellow in the old Porsche, while being lapped by the driver in the new Porsche, is wearing a silly grin precipitated by spectacular enjoyment."
    You need to go out to the next Historic meet in your home town and tell all those drivers of old cars not to enjoy themselves so much and that the modern equivalents of their steed could whip their ass.
    "

    If he is even trying to catch the new Porsche, that expression is a death mask anticipating his demise at the next hot corner."

    Why would anyone expect to be able to or even try to keep up. Thats not the point.


    "I do not argue that pushing an old Porsche can be a raw, visceral experience, but so is cutlass fighting, and I'm not fond of that, either. "

    Its the raw experience i LOVE of my 7 and others of other great drivers cars like the Buggati Type 35, Ferrari 250 and 275 series , Cobras , Canam cars , nascar etc etc. Sounds like your getting soft!


    "You can still have fun with bigger, and I'm not taking this line any further."

    I will , sure i agree but these days its at much higher speeds and usually when on road, at speeds that we will be locked up for.


    "If you're like me (and therefore certainly no poser), you prefer the handling of Sevens."

    I am a poser. Click on my link below and you can see i enjoy a good looking car. But Im not a Porsche guy. Never have been. Although i do have to bow to the most winingest marque of all time. You dont get that because they are a crap car. Early 911's have a cult following like no other so i assume they must put a smile on someones face.


    Bruce , car guys as we are come in all sizes. Some like to go straight , others like it tight and twisty and others like doing in the dirt. I would think ultimate laptime at the local track would be well down the list of most otherwise we would all be driving new skylines. Yikes!

    Tim


  4. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
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    Melbourne, Floirda
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    timax and Bruce, you're both right. The new Porsche and the old Porsche are totally different cars, even though they're basically the same. Pleasure of driving is like beauty, it depends on the person and the experience. I like old stuff and realize it's shortcomings, and even though inferior to the new high tech stuff, enjoyment isn't reduced.

    The new high tech cars like the current Porsche 911, or the new Corvette Sting Ray, are a blast and do everything so much better. My track buddy bought a new GT-R, and it rips. However, some of the new stuff like the GT-R are a little more disconnected, more like playing a video game. Yes, they go much faster and will out-corner anything from the past. Oh sure, launch control, ABS braking, active handling, traction control..........can you beat all the electronic nannies in today's cars ? No, but who's driving the car, you or the computer. Faster ....yes...........more fun..........maybe, maybe not.
    2004 Caterham R300
    2015 Corvette Z06
    2015 Ford F-150
    2015 Chevy Tahoe LTZ
    1969 Corvette Big Block
    1967 Pontiac GTO
    1964 Corvair Spyder
    1964 Corvair Greenbrier
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    2015 Porsche Panamera S
    2005 FFR Cobra
    all still in the garage

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, United States
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    Tony
    Indianapolis

    '10 Evora
    '66 S2 Super Seven 1500 Cosworth
    '99 Birkin sold

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
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    Bakersfield, Ca
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    Only two horsepower but the direct visceral feeling of control is exhilarating and something you can't get with all those new fangled gadgets... like steering wheels, gas peddles, foot brakes.
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    "HECK IS WHERE PEOPLE GO WHO DON'T BELIEVE IN GOSH"


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  7. #17
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    .



    "HECK IS WHERE PEOPLE GO WHO DON'T BELIEVE IN GOSH"


    2008 Ultralite S2K
    2016 Mazda CX-5
    2008 Volvo C30
    2005 Mini Cooper
    1999 Miata
    1967 Chevy C10

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