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Thread: Harness for road and track

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    151

    Default Harness for road and track

    There's an existing thread on harnesses for track, but I'm starting this new thread relating a harnesses for road and track. It also seems that the FIA rules changed in recent years. I am having trouble finding any harness that works for me. My FIA 2019 belts are expired.

    Background:

    - Many (all?) tracks require 5 or 6 point belts in an open car like a Seven. 6 point are generally considered more comfortable, and safer I believe?

    - 2" shoulder belts are not supposed to be used without a HANS device.

    - Sevens use bolt-in harnesses.

    - As my seats are movable, I need adjustable lap belts. Pull-down adjusters fit in a Seven; I don't think there is room for pull-up adjusters.

    Given all of the above, I need belts that bolt in, are 6-point, have 3" shoulder belts, and have pull-down lap belt adjusters. As far as I can tell, this does not exist. It's as if I have to decide whether to drive my car on the street or on tracks - but can't do both. I'm very frustrated.

    Advice?
    1997 Caterham, BDA
    1991 Miata, supercharged
    2017 VW GTI

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    5,268

    Default

    Take one problem off the table. Don't use a HANS but look for something like the Simpson Hybrid which is intended to work somewhat more independently of the shoulder belts. The standard Caterham harness mounting points are too wide for a HANS anyway and need modification.
    https://www.simpsonraceproducts.com/...eck-restraints

    Mine has attachments to connect to the harness at the buckle. I went for this after my rather large scare 3 weeks back where I nearly rolled my seven and the lap belt attachments would hold you in better in the event of a roll over. After trialing last weekend, I felt much more tied in as I now have 10 points attaching me to to the car (6pt belts, 2 pt arm restrains, 2pt Simpson Hyrbid).


    You want a 6 point harness. It takes no great imagination to imagine what would happen to your babymakers in an accident when the 5th belt rams them lovingly through the roof of your mouth. My current Caterham 6 pointer (expiring 2021) has the design where they go through metal loops on the lap belt and then to the buckle. This puts the pressure on your inner thighs instead of potentially giving you a scrotal "degloving" (to use the medical terminology).

    I prefer the Caterham belts - they just fit. However, they are the old FIA designed (buckle on lap belt). The website does not show any harnesses in the new format right now. Maybe a phone call to Demon Tweeks in the UK to find out what others are using in FIA motorsport for Caterhams. We will not be the only ones with this issue and Demon Tweeks sell a lot of belts.

    I have seen Schroth also used in Caterhams - you need the openwheeler type with short lap and longer shoulder. I think they may be pull up.
    Last edited by Croc; 06-29-2020 at 12:42 PM.
    Mike
    2021 Caterham CSR "CatKong"
    2010 Caterham CSR with Cosworth 2.3 Duratec
    2018 Caterham 420R with 2L Duratec 210hp at Donington UK
    1975 BMW CSL Group 4 (restoration finished - track set up time)
    1977 Holden Torana "A9X" (awaiting restoration)
    1985 Holden Commodore SS Group A (suspension restoration)
    1985 Holden Commodore Group A (suspension set up)
    1982 Ferrari 400i (radiator replacement)
    1965 Ford Mustang Fastback "Holman Moody"
    1992 Ford Escort RS Cosworth WRC (dyno time)
    1990 Range Rover 2 door Classic


  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Seattle-ish
    Posts
    1,540

    Default

    Shroth lap belts with the Flexi II option can be configured independently for either pull or pull down, and you can move the location of the adjuster to get it pretty close to the buckle. Comes in handy if you have something like Mog or Tillet seats.

    -John
    '95 Westfield SEiW w/2.0L Duratec
    '68 Lotus Elan FHC
    '91 Miata w/Flyin Miata suspension & brakes
    '95 Porsche 993 C2
    '86 Porsche 944 turbo (neglected project car)
    Throttle Steer

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    151

    Default

    Ok, after a bunch of phone calls, it looks like I've figured it out. I have ordered these Schroth FIA harnesses:

    https://www.schrothracing.com/item/p...tion-harnesses

    to be configured by them with bolt-on ends, pull-down lap belt configuration, and added sub belts, also with bolt-on ends. As a bonus the camlock lives on the lap belt, so I can use these as 4-point harnesses on the street, so I am getting everything I wanted. Many thanks to Zach at Schroth USA (800-884-2358) who helped me figure all of that out.

    Which I realize now is what JohnCh said above - thanks John. I understand it all now!
    1997 Caterham, BDA
    1991 Miata, supercharged
    2017 VW GTI

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    155

    Default

    I have the Schroth Profi II set up. Do your sub belts attach at the rear bulkhead like they do on my SV? In my case I had to have HMS provide a custom length for the sub belts as the standard set up was too short. They were very accommodating but it was another $50 per belt to reweb with 6" more length.
    Jay

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    151

    Default

    No - sub belts attach along the sides.

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Hole View Post
    I have the Schroth Profi II set up. Do your sub belts attach at the rear bulkhead like they do on my SV? In my case I had to have HMS provide a custom length for the sub belts as the standard set up was too short. They were very accommodating but it was another $50 per belt to reweb with 6" more length.
    1997 Caterham, BDA
    1991 Miata, supercharged
    2017 VW GTI

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Owings Mills, MD
    Posts
    144

    Default

    Check the size of the holes in the brackets from Schroth to make sure the bolts that hold your current harnesses will slide through. Otherwise you'll have to enlarge them.

    Jim

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    151

    Default

    Just looping back to give my experience. I have installed my Schroth belts, and did a track day this week. I am very happy with them - very comfortable, and easy to adjust. And the blue and yellow I got looks awesome in my blue and yellow car :-).

    I bought them from HMS Motorsports, who was very accommodating. These were the only 6-point belts that I could find that:

    - Have 2" lap belts (preferred)

    - Have 3" shoulder belts (needed to use without a HANS device)

    - Can be used with a HANS device

    - Could be configured with the proper fittings to bolt into the Caterham

    - Can be used a 6-point on the track

    - Can be used as 4-point on the street.

    Very happy with them.



    1997 Caterham, BDA
    1991 Miata, supercharged
    2017 VW GTI

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    88

    Default

    I got the Caterham Schroth belts directly from Caterham. They are Schroth Formula 2X2. Six point harnesses. Two inch shoulder straps with pull down tighteners. I believe Caterham throws in the necessary 7 specific hardware. Key thing to know is that the crotch straps do not have male fasteners that plug into the cam lock. Instead, they have loops. The loop on the end of each crotch strap goes through a loop on the end of each lap strap. The shoulder strap goes through the loop on the end of the crotch strap and is then inserted into the cam buckle. Be aware of this feature/flaw before you buy them. I would much prefer a metal tab to insert into the cam lock over the loops as it would be easier to deal with.

    Mine are labeled as FIA certified through 2025.

    Here's the link.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    151

    Default

    Do you drive on the street? I believe 2" shoulder belts are not recommended to be used without a HANS device.

    My Schroth crotch straps plug right into the buckle.

    Quote Originally Posted by SanderGA View Post
    I got the Caterham Schroth belts directly from Caterham. They are Schroth Formula 2X2. Six point harnesses. Two inch shoulder straps with pull down tighteners. I believe Caterham throws in the necessary 7 specific hardware. Key thing to know is that the crotch straps do not have male fasteners that plug into the cam lock. Instead, they have loops. The loop on the end of each crotch strap goes through a loop on the end of each lap strap. The shoulder strap goes through the loop on the end of the crotch strap and is then inserted into the cam buckle. Be aware of this feature/flaw before you buy them. I would much prefer a metal tab to insert into the cam lock over the loops as it would be easier to deal with.

    Mine are labeled as FIA certified through 2025.

    Here's the link.
    1997 Caterham, BDA
    1991 Miata, supercharged
    2017 VW GTI

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