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Thread: 2.0L Duratec Rebuild

  1. #161
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    Thanks, that confirms leaving it alone is the right decision. For the controller's other wires (switched 12v+, ground, sensor signal, sensor signal ground) the Emerald supplied engine loom uses a Superseal connector to make the attachment. Much cleaner and simpler than my old Innovate which had the signal wires directly connected to the ECU plug and the 12v+/- to the chassis loom.

    The dipstick is the Ford factory blade-style -- same one Raceline supplies (or at least used to supply) with their wet sump. It would work better if the tip was spherical, as this would allow it to more seamlessly make the transition from hose to connector, but I cant' find a good alternative that has a flexible enough tip to also make it around the 45 deg bend of the bottom fitting. Unfortunately the blade tip will hang up when it hits that hose-to-connector transition unless they are in a straight line. Hence the reason for the hose's curved route vs. a straight shot down to the sump.

    -John
    '95 Westfield SEiW w/2.0L Duratec
    '68 Lotus Elan FHC
    '91 Miata w/Flyin Miata suspension & brakes
    '95 Porsche 993 C2
    '86 Porsche 944 turbo (neglected project car)
    Throttle Steer

  2. #162
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    Jan 2006
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    Papak, I jut remembered I posted a photo of the dipstick tube with dipstick sitting out of the bottom here on post #5. It will give you a better idea of the design.

    -John
    '95 Westfield SEiW w/2.0L Duratec
    '68 Lotus Elan FHC
    '91 Miata w/Flyin Miata suspension & brakes
    '95 Porsche 993 C2
    '86 Porsche 944 turbo (neglected project car)
    Throttle Steer

  3. #163
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
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    Los Angeles
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    I have the same transition issue. I currently use a removeable section of 3/32” SS wire to which we created a bead on the end with a TIG. It’s still not a smooth enough transition.

  4. #164
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    Dec 2014
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    I did much of the same internal “cleanup” in my block as well. I also changed all the galley plugs to threaded ones. It was the only way I felt confident about the cleanliness of the galleys.

  5. #165
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    I just read this again before hitting submit and realized it's a lot of long-winded drivel that many of you would prefer to skip. So for those who would rather me just get to the point so you understand the context of the photos and move on, here is the executive summary: This morning I made a tool to install the pilot bearing. Worked great. Took a lot longer than anticipated. The end.

    And now for the rest of you...

    Any masochists out there who have actually waded through my website will know that I have a theory called the Rule of Three. No matter how pessimistic I am when estimating how long a job will take, I'm always off by a factor of three. Even knowing that when going into the planning process and multiplying the initial estimate by three to short circuit the process doesn't satiate the gods who control this aspect of my life. It still takes three times longer -- or, in that case, nine times longer than what my original estimate would have been. Consequently I no longer apply that fudge factor to my estimates. Life is too short.

    Anyway, this morning I had planned a small list of items to complete by ~10:30am: Install the pilot bearing, flywheel, clutch, test fit the engine without the transmission to remind myself where all the wires and fuel hoses need to go and ensure the engine mounts are lined up correctly, and finish installing the AEM WBO2 setup. Easy list, right? Arriving in the garage with a hot cup of coffee, I looked around and realized this place was a nightmare. I needed to clean it up before progressing. Once that was done, and with cup #2 in hand, I began the process of getting the engine off the engine stand to gain access to the back for the pilot bearing installation. More futzing around was done as I looked for the correct bolts to attach the cherry picker to the engine. With that completed and the engine on 4x4s on the floor, the engine holder was removed to expose the back of the block. Looking at the crank and thinking about that little pilot bearing that was finishing up a 24 hour soak in the freezer, I began to have a little trepidation about this step. A little more research was conducted to ensure I knew how deeply to seat the bearing and which end faced the transmission. This brought up lots of mentions of damaged thrust washers from beating the bearing in place. The Cosworth CSR260 engine assembly guide does mention to install it before installing the crank in the block for just this reason. Unfortunately I read that bit after I received the short block back from the machine shop. Given I still don't know if the shop did the assembly correctly, and I could still discover issues once it's back in the car and running, doing something they could then claim was the root cause seemed like a bad idea.

    I finally came across a guy who used a steering wheel puller to press his bearing into the crank. Hmm. Instead of threading the bolts into the steering wheel, you thread them into the flywheel bolt receivers on the crank. Made sense and I have an old steering wheel puller I could modify. First step was figuring out the size of the new bolts required. Grabbing a flywheel bolt, I had an uh oh moment. They have very fine threads. M12 x 1.0 to be exact, and I needed two bolts at least 60mm long to make this work. Once at the hardware store I confirmed that this is a really oddball bolt size. M12 very fine spec is 1.25 and I needed 1.0. Super fine? Driving home and not wanting to wait a week for McMaster Carr to save the day, I started thinking about other options and decided that there was a way to fabricate a a different attachment method from the leftover 1/8" steel stock I used to make the dial indicator stand, and that would allow me to incorporate the stock flywheel bolts. Out came the hacksaw, calipers, stepped drill bits and drill press. A little while later I had this:

    Name:  pilot bearing tool 1.jpg
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    Name:  pilot bearing tool 2.jpg
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    Name:  pilot bearing tool 3.jpg
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    The good news is it worked great. The bad news is that I had now nearly doubled the amount of time I had budgeted for the various jobs today, and I had only done one . Oh well, it's still a win. Just a slow one.

    -John
    '95 Westfield SEiW w/2.0L Duratec
    '68 Lotus Elan FHC
    '91 Miata w/Flyin Miata suspension & brakes
    '95 Porsche 993 C2
    '86 Porsche 944 turbo (neglected project car)
    Throttle Steer

  6. #166
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    The Frozen Northeast
    Posts
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    John given your ambitious list for the morning: I would have (realistically) budgeted one week of spare time to accomplish

    - keep the details coming.

    .P

  7. #167
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Roswell GA
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    993

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    John,
    Thank you for confirming the sanity* level required to be a 7er.
    Well done.
    Carl


    * or lack there of
    Life happens while you're making other plans
    1995 Caterham Crossflow RHD
    1990 Miata
    2007 GMC Sierra WT
    2013 Mini (Her's)
    2014 Outback
    JOHN DEERE D130

  8. #168
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    Thanks guys. I'm sure Croc will be along soon to weigh in on my lack of sanity.

    I decided to install the flywheel after lunch and researched the correct torque and if Loctite is required. I last did this when the engine was built in 2004, so have no recollection of the process. When I had the engine out in 2007 for the first cam upgrade and to install ARP rod bolts, I also bought a set of Cosworth flywheel bolts (stamped ARP but in a nice blister pack that has Cosworth printed all over it) as an additional upgrade. However, when checking the flywheel, I discovered it already had ARP bolts installed. These must have been what Raceline supplied as part of my original engine kit. Consequently I left them in place and stored the new ones away for future use.

    This is where things get interesting. The CSR build manual includes torque specs and process for their flywheel bolts, which are presumably ARP like what I purchased years before. SBD also sells ARP flywheel bolts and have a download on their site for their installation. Lastly I checked the ARP site and downloaded their instructions for these bolts on a Duratec. None of them align.

    Cosworth
    Torque in 3 stages: 37 ft lb, 59 ft lb, then 82 ft lb
    There is no mention of thread locker

    SBD
    Torque in 2 stages: 85 ft lbs., then 105 ft lbs.
    Use Loctite 243

    ARP:
    Torque to 95 ft lb.
    Use Loctite 242

    So very different final torque values and although Loctite 242 and 243 are both medium strength, the 243 handles slightly higher temps (360F vs. 300F) and has significantly higher breaking torque (230 in. lb. vs. 110 in. lb.) Torqueing in 3 stages makes sense, but at what value do I stop? I'm leaning towards the stronger 243 and torqueing to 100 ft lb, but anyone have an experience or counter advice?

    Thanks,
    John
    '95 Westfield SEiW w/2.0L Duratec
    '68 Lotus Elan FHC
    '91 Miata w/Flyin Miata suspension & brakes
    '95 Porsche 993 C2
    '86 Porsche 944 turbo (neglected project car)
    Throttle Steer

  9. #169
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    Feb 2009
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    NYC
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    4,970

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnCh View Post
    Thanks guys. I'm sure Croc will be along soon to weigh in on my lack of sanity.
    Good grief, you have had one of those weeks. I would never question your sanity...

    ...but I would observe your Microsoft background makes you far more resilient to bang your head against a wall repeatedly while being impervious to pain or the obvious logical need to stop.


    Back to bolts...




    I am confused which set of ARP bolts you are planning on using? Old ones from the former engine? New ones already installed and torqued by a vendor? New ARP from SBD. New ARP from ARP or new ARP from Cosworth? At the first, I would never reuse previously torqued bolts - I know you know that but I did get confused easily from your post (more coffee please). The dumb question is - are all these bolts the exact same thing? Same spec/product id? Should be but I learned to never trust these things.


    Assuming the ARP bolts are new and all the same, then I would go SBD approach. Its application specific for your build. Its more current (that Cosworth guidance is getting ancient). SBD is building these engines today. Plus the ARP spec is generic for a range of builds - not necessarily intended for yours. You could mix and match but why is your a la carte approach a logical one better than one of these experts? I could rationalize a 3 step build in torque to 105ft/lbs. Just my 5 cents

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnCh View Post
    SBD
    Torque in 2 stages: 85 ft lbs., then 105 ft lbs.
    Use Loctite 243
    Last edited by Croc; 06-21-2020 at 05:13 AM.
    Mike
    2010 Caterham CSR with Cosworth 2.3 Duratec
    2018 Caterham 420R with 2L Duratec 210hp at Donington UK
    1975 BMW CSL Group 4 (restoration - engine and dry sump install time)
    1977 Holden Torana "A9X" (awaiting restoration)
    1985 Holden Commodore SS Group A
    1985 Holden Commodore Group A
    1982 Ferrari 400i
    1965 Ford Mustang Fastback "Holman Moody"
    1992 Ford Escort RS Cosworth WRC (fettling after long period of storage)
    1990 Range Rover 2 door Classic
    and another project car coming....

  10. #170
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    When i upgraded the cams in 2007, I also purchased ARP rod bolts and ARP flywheel bolts for the increased redline. The flywheel bolts were purchased form Cosworth and arrived in their packaging, but the bolt heads are stamped ARP. After removing the engine back in 2007, I discovered ARP flywheel bolts were already in place. These were the bolts Raceline supplied as part the Duratc kit I purchased in 2003/4, but at the time I didn't notice they were ARP.

    Since there was no point in replacing the bolts at that time just for the sake of replacing them, I left them alone and kept the sealed Cosworth bolts in a box until I needed them. Like now. I'd be surprised if Cosworth, SBD, and ARP each have bespoke versions of those bolts. Having ARP do something different isn't cheap, and that would mean that SBD or Cosworth thought there was something wrong with the original spec. It seems a stretch.

    I think I'll go with the SBD torque value, but include an initial lower torque third step to more closely align with the Cosworth approach. It's interesting that both Cosworth and SBD specify multi stages, yet SBD's initial stage is higher than Cosworths final stage. I also find it interesting that the procedure with the lowest final torque value uses no thread locker and the one with the highest value uses the strongest. As for the Loctite 242 vs. 243 conundrum, Amazon made that decision. 243 wouldn't arrive until Thursday, but the 242 will arrive tomorrow. I'm tired of waiting...

    Thanks,
    John
    '95 Westfield SEiW w/2.0L Duratec
    '68 Lotus Elan FHC
    '91 Miata w/Flyin Miata suspension & brakes
    '95 Porsche 993 C2
    '86 Porsche 944 turbo (neglected project car)
    Throttle Steer

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