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Thread: 2.0L Duratec Rebuild

  1. #81
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    Jun 2013
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    N. California
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    I went through that chasing various tappets. I had to use various online sites and cross reference until I could figure out how the p/n system worked and I could order the thickness required. The parts guys at the local dealer were useless. I eventually ordered through Tasca with p/n only and no humans...

  2. #82
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    Jan 2006
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    I went through that hassle too. It was easier to find and order the Duratec tappets from a Mazda dealer. Ford dealers didn't even seem to know what they are

    Croc, didn't the K series have headgasket issues? Could the use of pantry items be related?

    -John
    '95 Westfield SEiW w/2.0L Duratec
    '68 Lotus Elan FHC
    '91 Miata w/Flyin Miata suspension & brakes
    '95 Porsche 993 C2
    '86 Porsche 944 turbo (neglected project car)
    Throttle Steer

  3. #83
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    Sep 2006
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    Southeastern Pa.
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    The plastic dowels on the early k series did cause head gasket issues. They were later replaced with metal ones. That helped correct that issue. Speaking from experience
    Mangia bene, Ridi spesso, Ama molto, Guidare veloce

    2000 Caterham Superlight #123
    1.8L VHPD Rover K Series
    2009 Caterham SV
    2.3L Cosworth Duratec

  4. #84
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    NYC
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    4,892

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnCh View Post
    Could the use of pantry items be related?

    -John
    Definitely not related. Plastic dowels came out of the pantry. The Rover K series engine head gasket issues came from using panties. Both leak you know!
    Mike
    2010 Caterham CSR with Cosworth 2.3 Duratec
    2018 Caterham 420R with 2L Duratec 210hp at Donington UK
    1975 BMW CSL Group 4 (restoration - engine and dry sump install time)
    1977 Holden Torana "A9X" (awaiting restoration)
    1985 Holden Commodore SS Group A
    1985 Holden Commodore Group A
    1982 Ferrari 400i
    1965 Ford Mustang Fastback "Holman Moody"
    1992 Ford Escort RS Cosworth WRC (fettling after long period of storage)
    1990 Range Rover 2 door Classic
    and another project car coming....

  5. #85
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    Jan 2006
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    Seattle-ish
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    The rebuild has been on hold while I awaited delivery of the missing gaskets for the oil pump and for the water outlet at the rear of the head. The later wasn't actually causing delays since attaching the water rail is one of the last things to do prior to installation, but it is needed. The online Ford dealer I use for Duratc parts normally ships quickly, but with Covid-19, it took much longer than normal, and then USPS seemed to misplace the package for a few days. Thankfully it's here now and the plan for this weekend was to finally begin reassembly.

    First step was to install the oil pump which arrived with my first shipment of rebuild parts back in October. At the time, I took a quick look to confirm it was correct, and although there were some slight differences to the casting from my circa 2002 pump, the key aspects were the same. However, this morning I discovered something overlooked during my initial examination: one of the two locating dowel pins was missing. The pump body is machined to accept it, but it was neither installed nor in the box.

    Then I took a look at the oil pump gasket to make sure it was correct. It is. However, the water outlet gasket wasn't even close to the correct shape. Rather than a flat plastic gasket with 4 bolt holes splayed out, this was a rectangular extrusion that was meant to fit in a groove. The part number matched the order and a visit to their site showed the drawing of the correct part. However, entering that same part number on a different site revealed a drawing of the part I received. Hmm...

    A visit to RockAuto's site was next to view photos of both parts from various manufacturers. The water outlet gasket is a little odd. They show both styles and the descriptions match, but one shows a hybrid with the extrusion fused to the flat gasket. My best guess is that the Ford setup uses both, but the water rail just requires the flat gasket. Photos below of the flat, extruded, and hybrid versions.

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    The oil pump photos created more confusion. Two of the pump brands include photos of the back side where the dowel pins are located. However, both show only the single dowel pin like I received from the Ford dealer. Given the pump body is machined for the second dowel pin, this seems odd. Does anyone have any experience with this? If not, I'll give Peter at Raceline a call on Monday.

    Thanks,
    John
    '95 Westfield SEiW w/2.0L Duratec
    '68 Lotus Elan FHC
    '91 Miata w/Flyin Miata suspension & brakes
    '95 Porsche 993 C2
    '86 Porsche 944 turbo (neglected project car)
    Throttle Steer

  6. #86
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    The Frozen Northeast
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    541

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    John.
    I'm not sure about the oil pump. WRT the water outlet... My experiences with the 2.0L Duratec is there are (at least) two versions of the engine: one made by ford, one by Mazda. As far as I've been able to determine the Mazda version had a plastic water outlet connector (for which there is a groove to accept the rubber gasket with the little tab on it). The other is the Ford cast aluminum water outlet connector (or visa-versa).
    Not to be outdone: in their catalogs both plastic & aluminum water outlet connectors have the same part number. I learned this the hard way; and was only able to sort this out by finding a ford dealership who had both parts in stock. The difference in the catalog was only identified by price difference (same part # again). When I imposed on the clerk to put his hands on both parts for me: he returned to the phone after 15 minutes to report that indeed there was a difference. For better or worse I've always used a nice bead of RTV to seal mine.

    Good luck
    p.

  7. #87
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    Jan 2006
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    Seattle-ish
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    Thanks Paul. These parts are both for Fords, and they show they are for the same years, so it's not even a running change. Looking more closely at the RockAuto listings, there are different part numbers for the two styles although the descriptions are the same. Unfortunately the online listing at Village Ford, where I initially ordered the gasket and is shown below, includes a drawing of the part I need, but uses the part number of the other gasket. I guess there is no point making this easy

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    It appears that part # 6G9Z-8255-BA is for the extruded gasket, and 1S7G-8255-BD is for the flat gasket. I'll know for certain once the order from RockAuto arrives. Now if I can just figure out the deal with the oil pump...

    -John
    '95 Westfield SEiW w/2.0L Duratec
    '68 Lotus Elan FHC
    '91 Miata w/Flyin Miata suspension & brakes
    '95 Porsche 993 C2
    '86 Porsche 944 turbo (neglected project car)
    Throttle Steer

  8. #88
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    Seattle-ish
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    I spoke with Peter at Raceline this morning and once again he came through. It turns out Ford stopped fitting the second dowel pin to the oil pump about 10 years ago, so that is the new normal and perfectly fine. This means I am ready to start reassembly...until the seemingly inevitable next issue arises

    -John
    '95 Westfield SEiW w/2.0L Duratec
    '68 Lotus Elan FHC
    '91 Miata w/Flyin Miata suspension & brakes
    '95 Porsche 993 C2
    '86 Porsche 944 turbo (neglected project car)
    Throttle Steer

  9. #89
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    Seattle-ish
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    Those of you keeping score at home may remember Issue #3 from this post where I identified that Raceline had changed the sump design since my early unit and had supplied some O-rings in my rebuild package that were not utilized in my version. Peter explained they changed the connection method between the oil pump and the port at the top of the sump that leads to the oil pickup. Both versions make this connection via a wedge-shaped aluminum block that bolts to the oil pump and seals that area with an O-ring, but these wedges differ on the sump port side. My version has grooves cut on both faces of the wedge to accept O-rings, but the new wedge only has a groove cut into the oil pump side. The sump side is machined flat and seals to the sump via an O-ring assembly that is pushed into the sump port. This assembly, which Raceline calls a thimble, consists of s very short aluminum tube to allow oil flow, with O-rings fitted to the outside at each end. To accommodate this approach, the sump port is drilled to a much larger diameter and is reduced down to the correct size via the thimble. Apparently this newer design made it easier to assure that the hole in the wedge and the sump port are perfectly aligned. These photos show the sump port, wedge, wedge temporarily attached to the oil pump, and the pump/wedge assembly sitting on the sump port.

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    Things turned interesting on Saturday morning when I started to assemble this area. After removing the old O-rings on the wedge, I discovered that the grooves are cut to accommodate two different size O-rings. One looked like it would accommodate the 2mm x 19mm O-rings I was supplied, but the other was a smaller diameter and the groove was much larger. Out came the calipers to measure both grooves:

    O-ring 1
    Outer Diameter = 23.52mm
    Inner Diameter = 19.66mm
    Groove Width = 1.93mm
    Groove Depth = 1.98 - 2.21mm (this varied a bit)

    O-ring 2
    Outer Diameter = 23.88mm
    Inner Diameter = 18.08mm
    Groove Width = 2.92mm
    Groove Depth = 1.32mm

    Looking at groove 1, there is a problem. The groove is deeper than it is wide, and is not machined to uniform depth. That means that an O-ring which will fit into the groove wonít protrude above the surface and create a seal. I connected with Peter at Raceline this morning and shared the pictures and measurements. He seems to recall they used an oval cross section O-ring from a Zetec oil pick up tube, but will have to do some digging to confirm. Looking on RockAuto, the Zetec in the Focus doesnít appear to use O-rings for the pickup tube and digging through websites of O-ring suppliers and manufacturers, no one seems to make oval cross section O-rings.

    I ordered some plastigauge this weekend and will use that to determine the actual clearance between the wedge and sump port. If itís really tight, liquid gasket may suffice which is the easy solution. If the initial design really did use an oval O-ring that is now unobtanium, then a trip to a machine shop to recut the groove may be the answer.

    This build remainsÖum, interesting.

    -John
    '95 Westfield SEiW w/2.0L Duratec
    '68 Lotus Elan FHC
    '91 Miata w/Flyin Miata suspension & brakes
    '95 Porsche 993 C2
    '86 Porsche 944 turbo (neglected project car)
    Throttle Steer

  10. #90
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Roswell GA
    Posts
    974

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    I thought I heard a thumping sound, was that you banging your head against a wall?
    Life happens while you're making other plans
    1995 Caterham Crossflow RHD
    1990 Miata
    2007 GMC Sierra WT
    2013 Mini (Her's)
    2014 Outback
    JOHN DEERE D130

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