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Thread: 2.3 Duratec running cold in '03 Caterham

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
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    N. California
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    Default 2.3 Duratec running cold in '03 Caterham

    Hello,
    I need some help here guys. The 2.3 Duratec in my "new" Caterham is running cold. I figured it was the T-stat, but that wasn't the case. When I replaced the old one it looked fine and the new one didn't have much effect on the engine's operating temp.

    Here's some info on the car: 180F T-stat, electric fan, heater, ~6qt. dry sump with oil cooler. I can get temp in the car if I let it idle with no airflow. The fan turns on at around 85C-90C. When driving it runs around 60C if I'm moving. I have not checked the gauge's sensor location yet. It seems to me it may be measuring the coolant temp in the rad, not the engine... If the gauge sensor is not in some wacky spot and the T-stat is OK there must be enough coolant reaching the radiator to keep this thing cool regardless of the T-stat.

    What I'd like to know is the cooling path of a Duratec to verify the hoses are routed correctly.

    Thanks,

    Andy

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    NYC
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    4,038

    Default

    This is from a very useful build blog that I have referenced in the past. Its for a Caterham 360 - so a 2L Duratec but the principles are the same for a 2.3Lw

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Mike
    2010 Caterham CSR with Cosworth 2.3 Duratec
    2018 Caterham 420R wit 2L Duratec 210hp at Donington UK
    1975 BMW CSL Group 4 (restoration - engine and dry sump install time)
    1977 Holden Torana "A9X" (awaiting restoration)
    1985 Holden Commodore Group A (restoration - engine rebuild)
    1982 Ferrari 400i (catching up on deferred maintenance)
    1965 Ford Mustang Fastback "Holman Moody"
    1992 Ford Escort RS Cosworth (fettling after long period of storage)
    1990 Range Rover 2 dr Classic

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    South Lyon Michigan
    Posts
    198

    Default

    If the diagram is correct? I would not think that having the temp sensor in the heater feed line would be ideal. I would verify the location of your temp sensor first. DaveW

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    The Frozen Northeast
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    431

    Default

    At least for the 2.0 curated there are two water outlet connectors: one plastic, one cast aluminum (same part number
    When I finally managed to get an aluminum one I had a fabricator TIG weld customization for my plumbing configuration and now have both temp senders in the primary water flow (ECU & dash display)
    This would eliminate the temp sender T-piece and grounding wire for it.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    N. California
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    AHHH! Just described how the system is plumbed and was timed out! Attempt #2...

    Mike,
    Thanks for the drawing, it seems the builder of this car went a much different route! We'll see if I'm able to describe it:

    I'll start with the water rail. It appears to be a Ford part and supports the coil pack. The following is attached to it:
    1) ECU temp sensor
    2) Gauge temp sensor
    3) Upper heater hose*
    4) Hose that exits block prior to T-stat
    5) 5/16" expansion tank hose
    6) Upper radiator hose*

    The T-stat housing is connected as follows:
    1) Large diameter hose to triple "T" then to the lower radiator
    2) Small diameter hose to triple "T" #1

    The triple "T" is connected as follows:
    1) Triple "T" #1 to T-stat (as above)
    2) Triple "T" #2 to expansion tank hose
    3) Triple "T" #3 to heater lower hose

    I need to warp my head around the way this was intended to work. My sense is that this system is bypassing too much flow around the T-stat so it's unable to control the temp. I also think it's way to complicated! If I clean things up I can ditch a few feet of hose and the "T".

    What direction is the coolant intended to flow in this engine? Is it to exit the T-stat housing?

    Thanks,

    Andy

    Edit - added a sketch of the system
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by ashyers; 11-12-2018 at 02:33 PM. Reason: add sketch

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
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    N. California
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    Default

    Sorry about the upside-down sketch! The orig. was OK, but it flipped?!?!?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    544

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    The following diagrams may be of use to you:

    Duratec cooling system, with heater:
    PDF, for saving: YD0505_01cool.pdf

    JPG, for immediate viewing:
    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	14781

    Duratec cooling system, without heater:
    PDF, for saving: YD0533_02cool.pdf

    JPG, for immediate viewing:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	YD0533_02cool.jpg 
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ID:	14782


    These are from a supposedly reputable source on performance Ford engines. Best of luck, sir!
    Last edited by Sean; 11-12-2018 at 11:45 PM. Reason: Post needed to be edited.
    Sean

  8. #8
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    Jun 2013
    Location
    N. California
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    Default

    Sean,
    Thanks!

    I'm really curious about the restrictor in the de-gas line. I wonder what it's purpose is?

    If I use the drawings you sent as a guide I can certainly eliminate a few hoses and simplify things a bit.

    I need to do a bit of noodling around and come up with a plan. I'm still not totally clear how the engine is over cooling when underway, but I suspect it's excessive coolant flow that's not regulated by the T-stat. I suspect the mass of hoses going into the triple "T" in the lower radiator hose.

    Thanks again for all the help guys .

    Andy

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    128

    Default

    Your Temp sensor should be in the thermostat housing right where the thermostat housing and head

    Tom

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    N. California
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    Default

    Tom,
    Thanks! Both the gauge and the ECU's sender are in the housing at the rear of the head. It appears they are working OK, so I'm rethinking the hose routing. I'm going to pull the engine for some other issues so it will be a good time to simplify the system and hopefully get it working as intended.

    This is the first reverse flow cooling system I've worked with so I want to make sure I understand how it's supposed to work before I reinvent the wheel.

    Andy

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