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Thread: 2004 WCM S2K for sale by editor of our Super Seven Manual

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
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    Shelby Twp, Michigan
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    159

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    Mike aka Croc - It's surprising, yes, but also surprising, no. Alfa wants this car to be comfortable enough for regular street commutes. The flexible bushings contribute to that comfort, along with less aggressive sway bars (and springs and shocks and one can go on and on). My Alfa's ride will deteriorate a little, by conventional standards, with solid bushings and stiffer / adjustable sway bars. But the handling will tighten up in all the ways that matter to me, and probably to most folks on this forum.

    I previously owned a Backdraft Racing roadster, a
    500 hp tube-framed 2,700 pound monster with BMW brakes. I was surprised at the stock roll and pitch, numbish steering and lengthy braking distance. I installed the racing package, which provided a mix of heim joints, stiff urethane bushings and a Wilwood big brake kit. Voila! The body beautiful became a sports car! Yet, most Backdrafts remain unmodified, and most customers are thrilled by the "sporty" handling and braking. Remarkably, the same was true, to a reduced degree, of my Lotus Exige S. I think the engineers know what could be done, but must hit a "sweet spot" with limited production cars like the Exige and Alfa 4C. There are enough Corvette and Porsche models so that everybody can find at least one that they like. But there is only one Alfa 4C.
    2015 Alfa Romeo 4C coupe, turbocharged. 6 speed DCT, 2,440 lbs, 320 hp
    1982 Porsche 930 "Flachbau" with Kremer 935 "Le Mans" slopenose, built G50 trans, supercharged 964 motor, 2,500 lbs, 425 hp

    EX:
    2004 Ultralite S2K, Honda S2000 drivetrain, transverse & differential braces, twin-pump anti-surge fuel cell, Mugen baffled oil sump, Canton oil accumulator
    2007 Backdraft Racing Roadster, Roush 402, race suspension, big Wilwood brake kit
    2008 Lotus Exige S2, Proalloy Chargecooler, 346 hp
    1993 Caterham, 1.8 liter Cosworth
    1991 Caterham, 1.7 liter crossflow
    1995 Mazda RX-7
    1987 Dodge Shelby Charger, turbocharged,
    Yokohamas
    1976 Triumph TR-6, Paris blue
    1963 Mini-Cooper S 1071 cc
    1964 Jaguar XKE drophead coupe, BRG with sea green interior

    ". . . breakin' up is hard to do" Neil Sedaka


  2. #32
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
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    Shelby Twp, Michigan
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    Want to show everybody this image, and then I will shut up about the Alfa. This is an image of my exact model and color (a Launch Edition) though not my precise car. However, this image really captures the sexy lines, which are somehow both feminine and masculine. Super Sevens are so evidently purpose-built, and so outrageous, that I never once, in 20+ years, grew tired of admiring them. I think this Alfa design will age in a similar way:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    2015 Alfa Romeo 4C coupe, turbocharged. 6 speed DCT, 2,440 lbs, 320 hp
    1982 Porsche 930 "Flachbau" with Kremer 935 "Le Mans" slopenose, built G50 trans, supercharged 964 motor, 2,500 lbs, 425 hp

    EX:
    2004 Ultralite S2K, Honda S2000 drivetrain, transverse & differential braces, twin-pump anti-surge fuel cell, Mugen baffled oil sump, Canton oil accumulator
    2007 Backdraft Racing Roadster, Roush 402, race suspension, big Wilwood brake kit
    2008 Lotus Exige S2, Proalloy Chargecooler, 346 hp
    1993 Caterham, 1.8 liter Cosworth
    1991 Caterham, 1.7 liter crossflow
    1995 Mazda RX-7
    1987 Dodge Shelby Charger, turbocharged,
    Yokohamas
    1976 Triumph TR-6, Paris blue
    1963 Mini-Cooper S 1071 cc
    1964 Jaguar XKE drophead coupe, BRG with sea green interior

    ". . . breakin' up is hard to do" Neil Sedaka


  3. #33
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Tallahassee, Florida
    Posts
    155

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    Very nice!!!

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Arkansas and . . .
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    3,129

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    [QUOTE=Bruce K;105926]Want to show everybody this image, and then I will shut up about the Alfa.[i/Q
    UOTE]

    And just when I really feeling good about the Alfa education I was receiving...please continue.
    Stalker V8, chassis #85

    Stalker Chassis #85 Build Gallery
    Stalker Chassis #85 Owner Thread

    Get up in the morning and give the day your very best. You donít get it back.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
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    Dallas/Ft Worth
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    33

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    I'm a big fan of the 4C and think it will be collectable one day.
    There is a show called; How its Made that did a Supercar series and the 4c was included; hand laid one piece carbon fibre tub. I bet they lose money on every one.
    Reminds me of the Lancia Stratos that I should have bought 30 years ago.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0YUL60A32Q

    and

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80wM4P4dD90

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Littleton, Colorado
    Posts
    793

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightguy View Post
    I'm a big fan of the 4C and think it will be collectable one day.
    There is a show called; How its Made that did a Supercar series and the 4c was included; hand laid one piece carbon fibre tub. I bet they lose money on every one.
    Reminds me of the Lancia Stratos that I should have bought 30 years ago.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0YUL60A32Q

    and

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80wM4P4dD90
    I agree; this car will become highly sought after in the future. In many ways this car is like the Lotus Evora in that the competition produces far better cars for the same money.
    - Brunton Storker, LS3, Chassis 159

    Check out my build:
    http://www471.pair.com/stalkerv/gall...2_itemId=30849

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Shelby Twp, Michigan
    Posts
    159

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    Xcarguy - OK, OK - you convinced me - I will provide future updates as I further upgrade and refine the 4C.

    Lightguy - Sergio Marchione confirmed your guess, indicating that money is lost on each 4C. But this is the halo vehicle for Alfa performance, and especially important now as Alfa reenters Formula One. No one knows, but I guess that 4C production will continue on a similar limited basis for at least several more years, irrespective of losses. There are even hushed whispers of an upgraded 4C or future 6C. Also, thanks for the video about the car's construction - very illuminating - so labor intensive - goes directly to the point of high cost and losses.

    MightMike - I considered purchasing an Evora. The new 430 model is fantastic, much better in every sporting way than the "S", but so new that $90,000 is a good price. At this time, a little-used Alfa can be purchased for nearly half that figure. Add $10,000 in select upgrades, and you have a car that is immensely lighter, objectively and subjectively faster, more connected to the road, with better steering (unassisted rack and pinion), better braking (big Brembos and less weight), and hotter appearance than the Lotus 430. I wrote the following sentence to my cousin, a braking systems-engineer and Viper racer: "To my eye, the 4C is a timeless combination of curves and purpose, simultaneously feminine and masculine, like a supermodel with biceps." Another friend of mine, who heads the service department at Cauley Ferrari in West Bloomfield, agreed with MightyMike when he stated that, because of Ferrari-like limited production, the 4C will become very collectible.

    Time to purchase a second car, you Sevenistas!
    Last edited by Bruce K; 01-09-2018 at 11:40 PM.
    2015 Alfa Romeo 4C coupe, turbocharged. 6 speed DCT, 2,440 lbs, 320 hp
    1982 Porsche 930 "Flachbau" with Kremer 935 "Le Mans" slopenose, built G50 trans, supercharged 964 motor, 2,500 lbs, 425 hp

    EX:
    2004 Ultralite S2K, Honda S2000 drivetrain, transverse & differential braces, twin-pump anti-surge fuel cell, Mugen baffled oil sump, Canton oil accumulator
    2007 Backdraft Racing Roadster, Roush 402, race suspension, big Wilwood brake kit
    2008 Lotus Exige S2, Proalloy Chargecooler, 346 hp
    1993 Caterham, 1.8 liter Cosworth
    1991 Caterham, 1.7 liter crossflow
    1995 Mazda RX-7
    1987 Dodge Shelby Charger, turbocharged,
    Yokohamas
    1976 Triumph TR-6, Paris blue
    1963 Mini-Cooper S 1071 cc
    1964 Jaguar XKE drophead coupe, BRG with sea green interior

    ". . . breakin' up is hard to do" Neil Sedaka


  8. #38
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Posts
    3,363

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    A Lancia Stratos sold on BAT for $475K a few weeks ago. So basically I buy a 4C, enjoy it, then in the distant future sell it for 5 or 10x what I paid. I love this plan.

    Alpha sold about 650 of these last year in the U.S., so the sales numbers are very small.

    I couldn't agree more about the alluring shape. Its like a normal sports car went to a body builder for a year of work outs.

    Definitely keep us updated. As a se7en owner I am hopelessly attracted to cars that fit the definition of "different."
    '97 Caterham Super Sprint, 1700 Crossflow-sold
    '09 Birkin S3, Duratec-sold
    '03 Caterham Zetec track car

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Shelby Twp, Michigan
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    159

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    Here's an update on the Alfa 4C: Like my former Exige S, and indeed my former Caterhams and former WCM S2K (please welcome John, new owner of my S2K and new member of this forum!), my Alfa 4C needed the kind of upgrades that will satisfy a former owner of such cars. Be prepared to spend about $8,500 to create a near-monster Alfa 4C. Earlier, I incorrectly stated $10,000 in required costs, but this included a custom steering wheel, which is not a performance upgrade. So here's the list of performance upgrades, both completed and in process, for my car:

    1) Wheel spacers (1" at rear, about .7" in front). Deletes the unattractive stock fender / wheel gap and widens the track for even more driving fun. Authentic wider wheels are better than spacers. I may have my stock Quadrifoglio wheels (5-disc type) widened next winter by a specialty firm near my home.
    2) Eurocompulsion V2 intake and full V2 ECU (my stock ECU was not touched - important so you can swap them out when the car requires warranty work).
    3) Magnaflow Corsa with wider pipes and muffler-delete.
    4) Eurocompulsion racing motor mount - eliminates motor shake.
    5) Alfa9 racing blocks to provide additional camber up front. You will probably also need some spacer shims, but those are local dealer items.
    6) Inokinetic adjustable sway bars (2) and replacement 4C links (4) for the front end. These sway bars are thicker and adjustable. The 4C links are heim joints and aluminum links that replace the flexy stock bushings and stamped arms up front. The package firms up handling a lot
    7) "Brisk" plugs (provides cooler detonation for less knock / more power)
    8) Ferrodo brake pads all around
    9) Stainless braided brake lines and high-temp fluid (flush and fill)
    10) Tighter cross-axis bushings for the outsides of the rear lower a-arms (4 bushings). Can be sourced from Gale Motorsports online, or buy an entire rear lower a-arm set from Eurocompulsion (lots more $$$)
    11) Pirelli P Zero's or equivalent sticky tires all around
    12) An expert, corner-weighted, four-wheel alignment from a guru, like Charlie at Auto Europe in Birmingham MI

    My car currently makes a calculated 320 engine hp. Calculated power only - on a dyno, the front wheel sensors of the Alfa 4C pick up the differential between the front and rear wheel speeds, and then the ECU shuts down the car. So, without knowing the true Mustang dyno number, my butt dyno confirms 300 and possibly more hp. And because of launch control and DCT, the Alfa accelerates much faster than its inherent fly weight and 300+ bhp would suggest. Check out this Youtube video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irPZ5_WdCas), in which a stock 4C outdrags a white Exige S that had been heavily modded like mine (probably 340 or 350 hp).

    The preceding upgrades create a beastly little exotic: Ferrari Dino looks, power everywhere and slot-car handling. My next upgrade will likely include a Nitron or Ohlin replacement suspension (shocks+springs), which also enables a slightly lower ride height. A Eurocompulsion V3 power upgrade package will also be available soon (approx late spring 2018). I suspect that the V3 upgrade will provide around 350 bhp, which may be nearing the safe power-output capability of the stock 1.7 liter block. A Torsen limited slip diff can also provide benefits, but is at the bottom of my list.

    After all the parts are on, and I've put some miles on the car, I'll report again.

    Until then, happy motoring!
    Last edited by Bruce K; 01-22-2018 at 10:18 PM.
    2015 Alfa Romeo 4C coupe, turbocharged. 6 speed DCT, 2,440 lbs, 320 hp
    1982 Porsche 930 "Flachbau" with Kremer 935 "Le Mans" slopenose, built G50 trans, supercharged 964 motor, 2,500 lbs, 425 hp

    EX:
    2004 Ultralite S2K, Honda S2000 drivetrain, transverse & differential braces, twin-pump anti-surge fuel cell, Mugen baffled oil sump, Canton oil accumulator
    2007 Backdraft Racing Roadster, Roush 402, race suspension, big Wilwood brake kit
    2008 Lotus Exige S2, Proalloy Chargecooler, 346 hp
    1993 Caterham, 1.8 liter Cosworth
    1991 Caterham, 1.7 liter crossflow
    1995 Mazda RX-7
    1987 Dodge Shelby Charger, turbocharged,
    Yokohamas
    1976 Triumph TR-6, Paris blue
    1963 Mini-Cooper S 1071 cc
    1964 Jaguar XKE drophead coupe, BRG with sea green interior

    ". . . breakin' up is hard to do" Neil Sedaka


  10. #40
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Posts
    3,363

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    With so much power now I am surprised that a Torsen LSD isn't higher on your list. Or, does the 4C have some form of limited slip? All of these upgrades are great. Clearly "upgrade-itis" is not limited to se7ens owners. I will be interested in how this car compares to your Ultralite on the track, esp lap times.
    '97 Caterham Super Sprint, 1700 Crossflow-sold
    '09 Birkin S3, Duratec-sold
    '03 Caterham Zetec track car

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