Just how streetable is it?

[rv-4mike]

I'm on the verge of ordering a WCM Ultralight, to be assembled purely as a street driver. So how are these cars on the street? Not just the Ultralight, but 7s in general. I've spent a lot of time reviewing archives to learn as much as I can about these cars and there are an awful lot of threads related to racing (especially on the Ultralight forum). Makes me wonder if most folks use these cars as track tools and dont drive much on the street.



I realize the car wont be terribly practical, but no less so than a motorcycle. Only thing I can think of that limits streetability is the small size making them invisible in traffic.



I just want to make sure I'm not making a mistake and buying the wrong tool for the job.

[Boxologist]

depends on ur level of mental illness. for the most part, my Caterham gets used as a daily driver in niece weather. but i have a sealed lot at work, and it was bought with the intentions of driving it for pleasure not staring at it. but its a 4cylinder, which is great for it weight. if i was using a Seight with the rediculous torque from the tap of throttle, i would be afraid of driving it. and driving a BEC would not please me as well keeping the rpms around 5000rpm (same applies to the caterham 6 speed).



i really believe u need actual seat time before u make this decision.

[slngsht]

I have a 27 year old replica. I don't have doors or a top for mine. As long as it's in the high 50s or warmer, I drive her.



I put about 6 or 7 thousand miles on the car last year. some travelling, but also commuting about once a week to work on the DC beltway.



I need some type of ear protection with mine.



My springs are pretty stiff now, but before I changed them, the ride was actually pretty comfy.



In my opinion, it can't be your main car, although I know of at least a couple of seveners who used theirs as their main transportation.



It's a great toy to keep in the garage, and drive on the street whenever it's nice out.

[slngsht]

if i was using a Seight with the rediculous torque from the tap of throttle, i would be afraid of driving it.



I find my rotus to be very predictable when I overpower the rear.   

[Boxologist]

if i was using a Seight with the rediculous torque from the tap of throttle, i would be afraid of driving it.



I find my <strong>caterham</strong>(sic) to be very predictable when I overpower the rear.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;



http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/rofl.gif http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/lol.gif <edited><editID>Boxologist</editID><editDate>2006-12-29 14:55:11</editDate></edited>

[slngsht]

http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/lol.gif

[WestTexasS2K]

Mike I use my Ultrlite on the street all the time and it is a blast. Hope you have alot of self control with any of these cars or keep you license where it is easily accesable. LOL. But honestly the ride is comfortable even as heavily sprung as my car is because it gets tracked alot. If you were going to striclty street the car put some softer springs on and it will ride better than most compact cars. You have to drive very defensively just like on a motorcycle because these cars are so low they can easily hide in blind spots. Eighteen wheelers are giant in comparison and could run over you and not even know it. Just be aware there is going to be wind buffeting, exh. noise, some engine heat depending on your level of insulation.

If you expect to drive down the road listening to the radio and talking on the cell phone you might want to look else where. If you just want to get out for a weekend drive and releive some stress and unwind you came to the right place. Good luck with the difficult decision process.

[solder_guy]

Gotta have a loud horn! Plus I really like my >motorcycle signal mirrors (http://www.kwmuth.com/products/kits/images/harleykit-large.jpg) with >custom control circuit (http://www.kwmuth.com/products/kits/200-0064.htm)!



Gotta be seen and heard!



Rob Mitchell, Atlanta

<edited><editID>solder_guy</editID><editDate>2006-12-30 01:24:47</editDate></edited>

[slomove]

There seem to be people who fall in love with the car and hang in and others who try it out, find it not to their expectation and sell off after a few months. Sometimes they buy a Lotus Elise instead and are happy.



The first group likes the second group because of a supply of price-reduced cars in good condition&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/yesnod.gif



You got to face it...it is a toy. Depending on your taste you can use it for:

- weekend and occasional evening outbursts of senseless driving (also called "blats")

- serious racing

- less serious trackday events

- an autocrossing tool

- touring (keeping in mind the limitations of space and weather protection)

- satisfying your auto mechanical desires

- meeting and communicating with other people having similarly strange taste (all of them very nice btw.)

- attracting attention of kids (but not so much chicks) all over the place



Gert<edited><editID>slomove</editID><editDate>2006-12-30 02:13:09</editDate></edited>

[xflow7]

A tough question to answer definitively because it depends very much on spec of the car as well as personal sensibilities about what is a fun driving experience.



Pretty much no matter what type of Seven you get, driving it will be windy and noisy. If those traits are positives you'll love it. If they are negatives then try a few before you buy.



Depending on the car it may also be bumpy on lousy road surfaces.



If you are of larger stature, make sure you fit in your intended car.



I've found my crossflow-powered Caterham to be very streetable. I drive it to work now and then (but not often due to the terms of my insurance coverage), but mostly it's blats of 1/2 - 2 hours. In addition I do the odd road-trip; usually for a weekend trip down to Mid-Ohio or to Indy for USGP.



My car's very well behaved around town. Once warm it idles fine and has never tended to overheat. Sitting in traffic sucks because you're in a small space to begin with and being surrounded by other people's exhaust and with no radio to distract you can be maddening.



The visibility is always a concern esp. around larger vehicles, but one you are always conscious of and sensible defensive driving alleviates much of the risk.



Longer trips for 2 people are possible provided you can be economical about what to bring and are creative with in- (or on-) car storage. Acknowledged experts on 7 road tripping are Angus and Tessa from BlatChat. See >here (http://www.mycaterham.com/36715/index.html) for what's possible.



It's possible to rig up intercoms with audio/cellphone in for a more civilized touring experience, but it's still a far shout from driving along top down in a Miata with Starbucks in the cupholder. If that's your ideal, a Seven probably isn't quite the right thing.



Dave

[slngsht]

It's possible to rig up intercoms with audio/cellphone in for a more civilized touring experience, but it's still a far shout from driving along top down in a Miata with Starbucks in the cupholder. If that's your ideal, a Seven probably isn't quite the right thing.



Dave



Based on first hand experience, I can tell you that if you hit a pothole, and the foam from your starbucks latte flies out of the cup, the turbulance in the cabin will actually carry the foam forward and land it on the inside of your windshield http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/smile5.gif

[Boxologist]

i was considering a cb setup in the 7 for the trip down to the Dragon if there was a caravan. have to figure out about a headset with a single earpiece.

[rv-4mike]

I've been riding motorcycles on the street for 30+ years, averaging 10K miles per year. So noise, wind, visibility, etc... are not a huge concern. My back cant take the sport bike posture anymore, and carpal tunnel in the left wrist make clutch operation painful. The Ultralight will be my motorcycle replacement.



I havent seen anything here to discourage me yet. Thanks for the input.

[Deman USA]

In the Deman SR27, there will be an option for two speakers located inbetween both seats that will have a transmitter that will allow you to plug-in your i-Pod so you can enjoy some music. There will also be a wind-screeen option.

[Al Navarro]

Mike-



I use my car exclusively on the street (much to the dismay of some of my fellow Se7eners!).



In terms of seat time helping with your purchase decision, I can only report that my first drive/ride in a Se7en haunted me for about 3 years...and that feeling only went away after I bought one. Do so at your own peril. http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/wink5.gif



I've put in as much as 9 hours of seat time in a day (with some of that in the POURING RAIN!)on the interstates and still love the car.



-Al

[xflow7]

Based on first hand experience, I can tell you that if you hit a pothole, and the foam from your starbucks latte flies out of the cup, the turbulance in the cabin will actually carry the foam forward and land it on the inside of your windshield http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/smile5.gif



http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/rofl.gif <edited><editID>xflow7</editID><editDate>2006-12-31 09:53:19</editDate></edited>

[BusaLoco]

RE: Based on first hand experience, I can tell you that if you hit a pothole, and the foam from your starbucks latte flies out of the cup, the turbulance in the cabin will actually carry the foam forward and land it on the inside of your windshield ...



I didn't know that Caterham's now offer the optional extra of a "Cup Holder" ...&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;I gots to gets me one o these http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/biggrin5.gif&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;...&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;or were you not driving with 2 hands?<edited><editID>BusaLoco</editID><editDate>2006-12-31 10:01:11</editDate></edited>

[slngsht]

one hand driving... i was going to be on an empty highway for an hour.



Although, I could easily make a cup holder. All I need is the right size hole saw http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/lol.gif<edited><editID>slngsht</editID><editDate>2006-12-31 10:32:52</editDate></edited>

[xflow7]

one hand driving... i was going to be on an empty highway for an hour.



Although, I could easily make a cup holder. All I need is the right size hole saw http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/lol.gif



And if you punch the hole in the right place the tranny heat could keep it warm.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/smile5.gif

[BusaLoco]

So that brings up an interesting question.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;.... So what "optional" extras are appropriate for a seven?&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;...&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;I know my car is quite (very) spartan. I have even told my kids if you want tunes buy and ipod (as if you could hear the music anyway). <edited><editID>BusaLoco</editID><editDate>2006-12-31 15:24:51</editDate></edited>

[slngsht]

So that brings up an interesting question.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;.... So what "optional" extras are appropriate for a seven?&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;...&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;I know my car is quite (very) spartan. I have even told my kids if you want tunes buy and ipod (as if you could hear the music anyway).



I run a mini-ITX pc for my instrumentation. It is hooked up to an 8" touch screen.



Normally it displays my gauges, but I also have about 800 MP3's loaded, as well as GPS nav system in case I get lost.

[BusaLoco]

That's not an optional extra! ... That's guages!&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;...&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;I have a Digidash II for that stuff too.

In my opinion optional extras should be things like cup holders,cigarette lighters, ash trays, neon lights, wheel spinners, tv's, lowering kits (could you imagine?) and bling junk like that.

Along that line take a look at this link >(Caterhams in Sardinia) (http://www.driving.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,22750-1825975,00.html)



That's right, that's Top Gear's Jeremy Clarkson's wife Francie at the wheel.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;...



http://www.usa7s.com/forum/uploads/20061231_164536_Francie_Clarkso.jpg



Re: optional extras:



"Jeremy’s comments didn’t help, “Where’s the stereo?” being his first observation and “I’ve seen more padding on Elle Macpherson’s hip bone”&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;...&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;and ...



"The company points out that this latest incarnation boasts better comfort, better suspension and, yes, carpets — by which they presumably mean the thin strip of black nylon fur that rucks up under your feet every time you get in or out. It is wider, too, so in theory at least provides more space in the cockpit and more boot room.



Other “luxuries” include instrument stalks on the steering column and a horn in the middle of the wheel — a huge evolutionary step from the scattering of switches that littered the old dash. It is powered by a new 2.3 litre Cosworth engine that propels the car from 0-60mph in a teeth-rattling 3.1sec. On the outside there are carbon-fibre fins and a reshape on the front mudguards, supposedly to improve aerodynamics."<edited><editID>BusaLoco</editID><editDate>2006-12-31 16:49:02</editDate></edited>

[slngsht]

That's not an optional extra! ... That's guages!&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;...&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;I have a Digidash II for that stuff too.



I used to have a heater. I took it out.



Honestly I wouldn't mind a cup holder. In one trip last year, I put 600 miles on her in 2 days. It would've been nice to have a drink on long empty highway runs.

[redbaron]

Although my Rotus is "streetable"I assiduously avoid driving it to any events more than 50 miles away. For that I use a tow dolly. The observation that these vehicles are really 4 wheeled motorcycles is right on. I equipped my Rotus with various creature comforts like a radio/tape deck which can't be heard over the Borla exhaust and a heater which is not need until the ambient falls below 15F and is completely useless now that I have moved from Michigan to Florida. Two items I did add that have proven worth while are a NACA duct footwell vent on the driver side and a removable Lexan backlite which reduces blow back which, when combined with the side curtains, makes cool weather driving considerably more comfortable for my 76 year old body.(See my 01/06/06 poating entitled "Footwell Ventilation" and my 05/08/06 posting entitled "Cool Weather Driving" for pictures of these items.) In summary, a "daily driver" no but a great big boy toy. PS, no cupholders.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Red Baron

[powderbrake]

Mike:

The car is streetable. Heck, it's a great reliable Honda, just hit the start button and go.

I use mine to run errands, pick up the groceries (you can stuff 4 12 packs of soda in the passenger footwell) and also drive it just for the pure fun of it. Since I drive it regulary on the street, I insured it just like my other cars, the only limit on my insurance is 7500 miles per year.



I also use it for the occasional blat on the back roads. This is where the true value of the car really lies. The sense of freedom and the incredible roadwothiness of a seven make cruising the roads a sheer pleasure.



If you have spent a lot of time on a street bike, then you will have all the understanding to avoid the drivers who don't see smaller objects. I do not worry about trucks, I just make sure I stay in areas where they can see me.



I don't have cupholders or other comfort devices. I do take a couple bottles of water or soda when on a blat, and it's no problem. I do mount my Valentine 1 on the hood between the windscreens, and I use an ear plug in one ear so I can hear the radar detector when it goes off. It has saved me on numerous occasions.





<edited><editID>powderbrake</editID><editDate>2007-01-01 10:52:27</editDate></edited>

[slomove]

Honestly I wouldn't mind a cup holder. In one trip last year, I put 600 miles on her in 2 days. It would've been nice to have a drink on long empty highway runs.



A cup full of latte in a holder won't do much for a full day's drive. For very long trips I have a 3 liter insulated Camelback pouch dangling between the seat backs from the roll bar. Filled with ice cubes and water a day drive through the desert is no big deal. The only annoying thing is the first sip of hot water from the sucking tube before the cool stuff comes from the pouch.



Gert



<edited><editID>slomove</editID><editDate>2007-01-01 20:48:45</editDate></edited>

[slngsht]

Honestly I wouldn't mind a cup holder. In one trip last year, I put 600 miles on her in 2 days. It would've been nice to have a drink on long empty highway runs.



A cup full of latte in a holder won't do much for a full day's drive. For very long trips I have a 3 liter insulated Camelback pouch dangling between the seat backs from the roll bar. Filled with ice cubes and water a day drive through the desert is no big deal. The only annoying thing is the first sip of hot water from the sucking tube before the cool stuff comes from the pouch.



Gert







Where do you put the other cup? http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/rofl.gif

[solder_guy]

See my 01/06/06 posting entitled >"Footwell Ventilation" (http://www.usa7s.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=69) and my 05/08/06 posting entitled >"Cool Weather Driving" (http://www.usa7s.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=115) for pictures of these items.



Updated with links! Insulated water bottle keeps me hydrated on drives.



Rob Mitchell

<edited><editID>solder_guy</editID><editDate>2007-01-02 00:11:59</editDate></edited>

[roll a 7]

When I ordered my 7 I figured it would see 90% street use and 10% autocross/track use. Once constructed I quickly came to appreciate the extreme nature of the performance envelope and my vision changed. You can't floor the car for more than 3-4 seconds on the street without reaching ridiculous/dangerous speed levels for almost any where you are going to drive. Some freeway drives may offer a little more time. Upon reaching these speeds you will be going much faster than the cars around you and you realize it just ain't that smart. Your car can handle it, but the mortal cars all about will be terrified and you will be the focus of their attention. If you live in a small community expect a visit from another motorist. They can all see who is in the car! The performance capabilities quickly exceed sanity on the streets.



My response has been to use the car about 90% autoross/track and 10% on the street. The most fun you can have in the car is when you can start finding the limits under controlled conditions with no oncoming traffic. That is a good definition of autocross and track days. Also, it really is fun hanging out with the other 7ers. On track weekends we have as much fun on saturday night lieing about our driving as we do on the track. Vino y cervezas fuel the fun!



My car has a buckboard ride with the performance setup and I don't care. On blats to Borrego and Julian I make no attempt to soften muy 24 way adjustable shocks because I like it this way. Make your own decision on that stuff.



I know a La Mesa realtor who drives his Birkin most days and another gent in LJ that uses his SV for daily transport. You get to make the call. Mine goes to work a couple of times per year.



A 7 is the natural progression from a motorcycle and I'm suprised that more cyclists have not caught on, yet. More cars on the road should open some eyes over time.



Mike, do you plan to get an SB 100 number in 2008?

[shotgunslade]

I'm a brand new member who just joined because I am seriously considering giving myself a streetable Ultralite XR7 for my 60th birthday. I have been driving my highly modified Subaru SVX in track days for two years now. Am a NASA HPDE 2, hoping to go up to 3 this year. Have driven 4 courses at Pocono, Watkins Glen and Lime Rock and a couple of AutoX's. Will be hitting Summit Point and Road Atlanta for Panoz School later this year. My new ride will be 95% track and 5% street. Will trailer it to the track.



Have read the posts here by S2K owners and they re-affirm my selection of WCM. Plan to visit Brian in May to view and drive both the S2K and the XR7.



My questions:



Any XR7 owners out there, and if so, how do you feel about the car? Any second hand experience, or even any vile rumors?



As I am a developing driver, how user-friendly will I find the WCM cars? My previous car was a 82 911SC which would turn around and bite a chunk out of you if you crossed it. My Subaru is very forgiving, only spun it once when I did something really stupid with cold tires, a cold track and a cold brain.



How about fragility? I saw a Superformance S2 driver drop a wheel off the pavement at Pocono and rip off his entire right front suspension.



Thanks for the info. Hope to be a good forun participant. Am a long time member at Subaru-SVX.net.



http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/smile5.gif http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/coolgleamA.gif <edited><editID>shotgunslade</editID><editDate>2007-01-06 10:30:06</editDate></edited>

[redbaron]

I have added a few "creature comforts" to my Rotus to make it more streetable. In addition to the top, side curtains, and heater which came with the car I have added a footwell ventilation system, an IP storage bin, carpeting in both the cockpit and the boot, an AM/FM stereo with a tape deck and 4 speakers, a parking brake warning light, a map light, windshield washer sustem, a 12 V cigarette lighter outlet, a Grant removable steering wheel, an on- board fire extinguisher, a passenger assist handle, a boot lid lock, roll bar padding and a Lexan backlight to reduce wind blow back. Obviously, I use the vehicle as a cruiser, not as a track car but the Ford 2.3 liter turbo charged / intercooled engine does provide spirited performance.

[Al Navarro]

Baron....a stereo?!? Does not the motor provide enough aural excitment?&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/wink5.gif



Shotgun, I'm up in Frenchtown if you want to check out my car (although I do like Brian's products too).

[redbaron]

For the record, the sterio turned out to be a big waste of effort. Can't hear it above the rumble of the Borla exhaust system.

[slngsht]

For the record, the sterio turned out to be a big waste of effort. Can't hear it above the rumble of the Borla exhaust system.



I thought you used it to play the Borla sound when the car is not running http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/biggrin5.gif

[redbaron]

For the record, the sterio turned out to be a big waste of effort. Can't hear it above the rumble of the Borla exhaust system.



I thought you used it to play the Borla sound when the car is not running http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/biggrin5.gif

[redbaron]

For that I have the sound track from the video "Rendezvous", which is a Ferrari running flat out through the streets of Paris in the wee hours of the morning. The sweet sound of that V12 engine being paddled through the gears is guaranteed to make one's spine tingle.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;

[slngsht]

For that I have the sound track from the video "Rendezvous", which is a Ferrari running flat out through the streets of Paris in the wee hours of the morning. The sweet sound of that V12 engine being paddled through the gears is guaranteed to make one's spine tingle.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;



I first saw that video back in the early 90's. After watching it a few times, I'm convinced at least parts of it are fake. Either the video is on FF, or the sound does not match the speed of the car. There is one particular section where it sounds like the guy is near the top of 4th gear, screaming down the road, but he passes a white car, and I doubt if the speed difference is more than 40 MPH.



It does have a nice sound track though.

[slngsht]

here it is

YouTube Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEJF687VS0M)

[powderbrake]

shotgunslade:



I gave myself a WCM S2k for my 66th birthday. I love it.

To answer some of your questions.



The 95/5 track/street is probably OK for an XR7. I really don't think of it as a street car, and I believe it was originally conceived as a track car. when you see it next to the S2k, it will be obvious that it is a race car. it is LOOOOOOW, with almost a prone driving position. Why bother with lights and the registration hassle if you are really getting a track car?



How user friendly? I can only speak of the S2k, and it's as reliable as any stock Honda, meaning it's bulletproof.



Performance wise, like your incident with your Subaru, don't jump on the throttle in 1st or 2nd with the front wheels turned and cold tires. That's just normal for almost any Se7en, particularly one with a 240 hp engine.



Fragility. I believe it is quite rugged. I was running a NASA HDPE event when I allowed Woody Harris to drive my car at Motorsports Ranch at the Southwest Se7ens Festival a couple years ago. I was a passenger when on the second lap, he attempted a turn at about 70-80mph that I was taking at 50-60mph,( I was thinking to myself.. We are definitely NOT going to make it")we didn't make it, and we slid offroad through the gravel and grass, and found some larger rocks. It bent my right rear wheel, and bent the lower shock-suspension strut mounting bolt. There was NO damage to the car. The bolt was a standard high strength american 1/2 inch , so there was no problem with a replacement. The 10 link rear suspenion, with all adjustable steel rod ends makes repairs and/or alignment adjustments quite simple. As to the wheel, lightweight aluminum wheels get bent whenever you abuse them.



If you want some first hand knowledge of an XR7, RDROCKT on this website has one. You can PM him, or email me at geddens at charter dot net, and I can put you in touch.

[shotgunslade]

Powderbrake:



Thanks. Your remarks are much appreciated. I sent RDROCKT a PM. Your remarks about the WCM ruggedness are very comforting. My Subaru worries me from time to time with little malfunctions from track abuse.

[WestTexasS2K]

I concure with Pwrbrake on the XR7. I was ordering my car when the 1st XR7 was in its final stages and had a chance to buy it or the S2K. I went for the S2K, I did this for several reasons. 1 The S2k has been around for several years and is very proven. 2 The XR7 is pure race car. It could be driven on the street but if you think the S2K is low and hard to see take another 4 inches off of it. The XR7 has all new frame and suspension layout that makes if very low. I do like the power adjustable seat and pedals though. That is a nice touch that coul help on a street car.



As far as durable. I cant imagaine a car going thru as much hell as my Ultralite without a hicup. I have multiple high speed off track incidents with only a dinged muffler as a result

[solder_guy]

here it is



Wow .. Arc de Triomphe, Les Champs-Elysées, Place de la Concorde, Musée du Louvre, Opéra national de Paris, and ends on the hill of Sacré Coeur.



After the Arc, halfway down the Les Champs-Elysées there's a first generation, yellow Celica!!



Rob Mitchell