Trailer Group Purchase

[slngsht]

anyone interested?



My requirement would be:

Smaller and lighter than typical car trailer (Seven sized).

Room for some extra stuff (a set tires, or tool rack)

Convertible http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/lol.gif I want the lightness of an open trailer, but some sort of contraption to properly "enclose" it for rainy trips.



Toss in your ideas if interested. I'll talk to a couple of fabricators.



-Mazda

[manik]

I needs to get me one!!



Plenty of ideas on this thread BTW (although not specifically seven-related)



>http://forums.autosport.com/showthread.php?s=0c9949c97562e5f893e27983f7d35881&threadid=63980 (http://forums.autosport.com/showthread.php?s=0c9949c97562e5f893e27983f7d35881&threadid=63980)





tm<edited><editID>manik</editID><editDate>2006-10-26 09:08:51</editDate></edited>

[Al Navarro]

Ditto. How about "all for under $5k"?



It's too bad that Brian James doesn't sell their trailers here.



http://www.brianjames.co.uk/pages/start.html



(click on the minno shuttle)



That would be a good thing for Cat US or another distrib to look into. Hint. Hint.

[manik]

Yeah, the Brian James 'Sprint Shuttle' enclosed trailer is also nice, as it has those slight pockets on the side to fit your rear-end as you shimmy inside the trailer.



I would think a U.S. manufacturer could easily reproduce something like either of those Brian James trailers. Has to be less expensive than importing them from the UK!







tm

[slngsht]

I gave Dennis a call (he used to work for Rotus). He will have very reasonable prices if we come up with some sort of standard design.



Are you guys looking for full enclosed trailers?



I prefer a flat trailer that can be enclosed (just at car height, not full height) to save on cost and weight.



And I'm thinking WAY below $5K. Below 2K would be nice.

[manik]

I think Michael D.'s open trailer design would be great. Perhaps even an option to enclose it, or at least the front section for wheels, tools, etc.



Under $2K would be nice as well... Would think a trailer like this would make it easier for people to get their Sevens to and from events across the US (7-7-7 ?)







tm

[slngsht]

I think Michael D.'s open trailer design would be great. Perhaps even an option to enclose it, or at least the front section for wheels, tools, etc.



Under $2K would be nice as well... <strong>Would think a trailer like this would make it easier for people to get their Sevens to and from events across the US (7-7-7 ?)</strong>







tm



That's what I need it for http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/smile5.gif

[slngsht]

I'll use the number of votes here to try and get some pricing. I'd like to stick to one base design, and perhaps some "upgrades".

[Al Navarro]

Mazda-



Don't forget surge brakes...unless more experienced towing folks say they're not necessary for the kinds of cars we're putting on the trailers...seems like a smart safety measure, especially for those who have tow vehicles with not much capacity (Mazda, I think your Odyssey is about the same as my Pilot).

[manik]

Trailer with a weight of approx 650 pounds and a car with extra tires & rims of 1,500 lbs is generally much lower in total weight than the maximum towing capacity of SUVs. Brakes might be an overkill (I've never used them with my 4-Runner).



http://www.westfieldeleven.com/demonstrator/USA_ELEVEN_19.jpg





tm<edited><editID>manik</editID><editDate>2006-10-26 13:50:12</editDate></edited>

[Al Navarro]

Hmm...I wonder what's in that box?



I know that the Pilot has a 3000 lbs enclosed trailer limit...and a 4500 lbs "boat trailer" limit (which I assume applies to all open trailers). Most of the commercially available trailers I've looked, with Seven loaded seemed to be around 2500, so I didn't want to push things to the limits. Again, I'm a trailering virgin, so pardon any naivete.<edited><editID>Al Navarro</editID><editDate>2006-10-27 05:56:24</editDate></edited>

[manik]

Most of the commercially available trailers I've looked, with Seven loaded seemed to be around 2500, so I didn't want to push things to the limits. Again, I'm a trailering virgin, so pardon and naivete.



That's the beauty of an aluminum trailer like the one Michael D. had made. There is nothing else similarly available because all other trailers assume you are putting a much heavier car or 'thing' on them. If you've got a racing-spec Seven that is coming in at around 1,100 lbs, even better!



The biggest obstacle you are facing with an enclosed trailer is the drag being placed on your tow vehicle.



Unless I am missing the point entirely...



tm

[yellowss7]

Just a note of caution for those of you who have never trailered a car. An additional 2000 pounds is not insignificant. 3 years ago, while towing my seven to an autox, the trailer started swaying and I lost control of the Durango that I was towing with. (this was on the NE ext. of the Pa. Turnpike) Bounced off of the left then the right guardrails and ended up with the trailer jacknifed across the inside lane. The trailer is an enclosed 18ft Pace that weighs 2750 empty. I was only doing 50mph when it happened. Someone said that I should have speeded up and applied the trailer brakes using the module in the durango. Speeding up is not intuitive when you're being pushed and pulled by a swaying trailer. http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/ack2.gif The hooks on the rear tiedown straps straightned out and the seven slid forward about 3 feet, denting a rim and putting a small crack in the left rear wing. http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/cryin.gif Duragno was totalled and the trailer now sports dents on 3 corners. Just be careful towing!!!&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;One other observation, an enclosed trailer is nice, if it rains, to store stuff more safely, but definitely is harder to tow, due to poor visablility and susceptability to wind. If you don't get caught in the rain, Michael's trailer is definately the way to go. PS he kicked my butt at sunday's autox. I am humbled. http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/thumbsup.gif&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Tom

[slngsht]

I think for a relatively small open trailer, brakes are not necessary. For an enclosed trailer, they are.



I've towed 4000 lb boats for quite a few years, without brakes, with no problems. You just have to drive more defensively, give more room, etc...



That could be one of the additional cost options we can look into.

[slomove]

I think for a relatively small open trailer, brakes are not necessary. For an enclosed trailer, they are.



I've towed 4000 lb boats for quite a few years, without brakes, with no problems. You just have to drive more defensively, give more room, etc...



That could be one of the additional cost options we can look into.



I think it is not so much about legal necessity but about safety margins. I have a 2300 GVW pound double bike trailer for my Seven and added surge brakes anyway because I am towing with a rather lightweight Santa Fe (probably comparable with most vans or the Pilot). I never had trouble with fishtailing as long as the hitch is loaded sufficiently (maybe 120-150 pounds). Obviously it tows fine without the brakes but in a dicey situation I will be grateful that I got them. Think of it as an insurance. You don't need them until you need them http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/eek6.gif



If you tow with an F350 you probably would not care less....



Gert

[slngsht]

If you tow with an F350 you probably would not care less....



Gert



If I had a F350, I could toss the Seven in the bed http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/biggrinjester.gif

[slngsht]

I will find out how much the brake option will be. It does not impact the general design of the trailer, so I think it can be done as an extra.

[scannon]

I vote for the brakes as well. I tow my Miata on a borrowed single axle trailer from time to time with an '05 Legacy GT wagon. Stopping distances are much greater and once on a long down hill run, the trailer started swaying back and forth. Fortunately, I was able to control it and no damage was done.



Skip

[slngsht]

All, I dropped a line to Alumina regarding MichaelD's trailer and group pricing. I'll let you know when I hear back.

[manik]

I vote for the brakes as well. I tow my Miata on a borrowed single axle trailer from time to time with an '05 Legacy GT wagon. Stopping distances are much greater and once on a long down hill run, the trailer started swaying back and forth. Fortunately, I was able to control it and no damage was done.



Skip



A 'Seven' will be about half the weight of a Miata. The same goes with an aluminum trailer versus a steel trailer. The overloaded and swaying evidenced with heavier trailers and cars should not be an issue. Just an FYI.





tm

[slngsht]

When I talk to Alumina (as when I discussed this with Dennis Hedges), I'll ask for trailer brakes as an option, so those who want it can have it, without increasing the cost for others. http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/smile5.gif

[redbaron]

I have given some thought to a light weight car hauler suitable for my Rotus. Although I have a Car Caddy tow dolly I am reluctant to tow it great distances with that equipment becaue the jury is out as to possible lubrication problems with even a manual transmission unless the drive shaft is removed. In addition there is no weather protection so if one encounters rain then there is sure to be several days of "dry out" time required because we all know that these cars, even with the top up or a tonneu cover are far from weather tight. I have towed large travel trailers for some 15 years so I have definite ideas of what I would want in my car hauler. The basic chassis should be tandem axle with electric brakes with a manual over ride on at least one of the axles. Tandem axles are much easier to back up and would require lower capacity wheels and tires. Torsion rubber suspension would allow lowest load floor. Ramps would be self stowing.The unit would be enclosed but need not necessarily be be hard sided. I envision a hard nose section with the remainder of the enclosure consisting of heavy duty canvas like that used on commercial trucks fitted over a series of fixed metal hoops. The canvas cover would be attached with metal snaps similar to those used on boat covers. Admitedly not as convenient as a fully enclosed hard sided unit but it would keep over all weight to a minimum while providing an acceptacle amount of weather protection. I saw a unit similar to this at Carlisle and it was being used to transport a Westfield 7.

[slngsht]

Redbaron, Excellent post!



I didn't know about torsion rubber axles...





Quick google: >http://www.kmtparts.com/store.asp?pid=9284 (http://www.kmtparts.com/store.asp?pid=9284)





http://www.kmtparts.com/client_images/catalog19666/pages/images/Torflex-Page-Image.jpg



Price seems reasonable at $281 per axle including electric brake, or $163 for no brakes.



Thanks.

[scannon]

A 'Seven' will be about half the weight of a Miata. The same goes with an aluminum trailer versus a steel trailer. The overloaded and swaying evidenced with heavier trailers and cars should not be an issue. Just an FYI.





tm



My Miata weighs just under 2,400 lb. I'm hoping the Caterham SV will weigh in at around 1,300 lb when finished.



Whichever trailer I buy has to be able to carry either car so it will probably have to be a bit longer for the 13 foot long Miata. I will go for the brake option.



Skip

[slngsht]

All,

I spoke to both Dennis Hedges and Dean from Alumina during the last couple of days...



The dimensions I gave Dean was outside-to-outside of fender = 67", and overall car length=12 feet.



He'll leave room upfront for a set of tires or a tool box.



Separate line item for electric brakes.



These trailers use the torsion rubber axle.



My initial impression is that $2K will not be doable. Apparently the price of Aluminum has gone up.



Dennis didn't think $2K was doable either.



I will keep y'all posted as I get more info.



Thanks.



Dean's response



Good morning Mazda:

Thanks for your interest in Aluma's trailers. It really is great to hear about how well our aluminum trailers are appreciated by all of our customers and those who would like to own an Aluma trailer.



I will get back to you with further details about your quote/request.

Have a nice day.

Dean Maschoff

[WestTexasS2K]

If I could make a few suggestions. I pull trailers about 40k miles a year. I have built 5 trailers over the last 7 years and have a few suggestions. Aluminum is nice for a trailer but is very cost prohibitive. Alot of the aluminum trailers also suffer from stress fractures. I know this because I have repaired alot of aluminum horse trailers and they are built very sturdy and still crack.

For a 7 type vehicle a single axle trailer works very well and reduce your expense by about 500.00 dollars. You have 1 less axle, 2 fewer wheels and tires, smaller fenders.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Electric brakes are a better way to go as well. Most surge hitch system will start about 400.00 compaired to 99.00 for electric. You just have to put a 60.00 controller in you tow vehicle. If you are using a full size truck or SUV trailer brakes may not even be needed.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;The disadvantage to single axle is if you suffer a blowout the trailer can become a bit unstable. Usually managable, but with high degree of pucker factor involved.



Use only a quality trailer tire. Do not use radial car tires on a trailer. If you do you are just asking for trouble. I have never had a blowout on a trailer tire equipped trailer ( at least 400k miles of towing) I have had several with car tire equipped trailers.



A few of you have complained about trailer whipping. This is usually associated with not enough tounge weight.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;If the car is loaded to far back unloading the tounge a severe whip is a gaurantee. You should have a minimum of 150-200 lbs of tounge weight.



Brian Anderson from World Class Motorsports has built a few trailers for the Ultralite. Both were single axles. 1 had flat bed that was ten foot long it had a tilt bed. You could load the car with no ramps and it can be easily pulled with a small van or car. The second was still ten foot with tilt bed but had a frame top that had a heavy canvas cover. It pulled well and kept the car dry in the wet weather.



During the Run and Gun event last month Dennis Bruton brought his Super Stalker to the event in a single axle trailer that was enclosed with aluminum skin much like any other enclosed trailer. It had a sloped front about 2.5 feet tall and wedged up in the back to clear the roll cage. The back section lifted up so that it is easy to get in the car to remove from the trailer. It was also a tilt bed so no ramps are required. He was pulling it with a fullsize older Chevy van but most suv or small truck should be able to pull it easily. Might be to big for a car to pull. This unit will cost quite a bit more due to extra materials and labor to attach all that aluminum.



If there is anyone near Texas that wants a trailer I would be happy to build it for you. Shipping cost can eat your lunch on trailers.



Most areas have a custom fabrication shop that will build a custom trailer for you.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;They are typically reasonable in price and they finish them quickly.

[redbaron]

I agree with your comments on an aluminum intensive trailer. For a unit the size we are discussing the weight differential between steel and aluminum is probablly less than 200 pounds. It may be worth the time to check pricing with some of the trailer manufacturers in the Southeast. The dirty litle secret is that many of them employ convict labor which greatly reduces the labor cost element in chassis fabrication. However,one does need to be alert to weld quality from such suppliers.

[slngsht]

WestTexasS2k, Excellent input. I'll look into steel as well.

[powderbrake]

I have an enclosed trailer. Why you say? While they are more expensive, I am primarily running a "street" car, and if I am taking it somewhere for a cruise, it will arrive with dry seats if it rains. If I am taking it to the track, it has room for tools and supplies. see pics







I don't have a pick-up, so it comes in handy for moving large items, or for moving a daughter's furniture. like lots of tools, the longer you have them, the more uses you find.



I have a Haulmark 16' Kodiak, enclosed trailer with rear ramp door, and the Seven fits perfectly with room in the front for tools. I have an extra 6" in height, which I do not like, due to additional air resistance, but I needed a trailer in a hurry, and that was available. Aside from that the trailer is great.



A note on trailering and electric brakes. When I picked up the trailer in northern Indiana, and towed it home to St.Louis while empty, it was a BEAR to tow. It oscillated side to side, and getting near a tractor-trailer was PUCKER CITY !! This is where the electric trailer brakes really help. If an oscillation starts, DON"T put on the car brakes ( unless you have to on an off ramp), you reach down and apply the trailer brakes manually, and the trailer straightens right out.



I later added a weight transfer hitch, and it helps the trailering under all conditions, including an empty trailer. I have a Tahoe, so the extra weight is within the capacity of the tow vehicle. I understand why a small trailer is desired for a seven. http://www.usa7s.com/forum/uploads/20061105_132051_DSC_0239_Small.JPG



http://www.usa7s.com/forum/uploads/20061105_132111_DSC_0240_Small.JPG



http://www.usa7s.com/forum/uploads/20061105_132132_DSC_0241_Small.JPG

[Arya Ebrahimi]

I posted some threads on some other forums I'm on, and someone referred me to the following site:



www.alumaklm.com



I think the 7814S is the trailer that would be best for you guys after browsing around the site. Found here:



http://www.alumaklm.com/sections/products/template_new.php?product_id=18&product_category=5



I didn't find any prices posted on their website, but I figured I'd pass this along.<edited><editID>Arya Ebrahimi</editID><editDate>2006-11-05 18:57:50</editDate></edited>

[slngsht]

I posted some threads on some other forums I'm on, and someone referred me to the following site:



www.alumaklm.com



I think the 7814S is the trailer that would be best for you guys after browsing around the site. Found here:



http://www.alumaklm.com/sections/products/template_new.php?product_id=18&product_category=5



I didn't find any prices posted on their website, but I figured I'd pass this along.



It's a small world!



Dean from Aluma is the guy we're working with to get quotes http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/biggrin5.gif

[redbaron]

To get some idea of the price range that can be expected from Aluma I stopped in and chatted with one of their dealers in Hobe Sound, Florida.I was quoted a price of $3200 for the single axle Model 7814S and $4800 for the tandem axle Model 7814.Also, to get some idea of weight difference this dealer told me that a tandem axle 14ft, wood deck, steel frame unit would weigh in at 1600 lbs as compared to an Aluma equivalent at 1100 lbs.

[slomove]

Wow, that aluminum stuff ain't cheap.....

I know 2 people who got this steel trailer built locally:

http://www.californiacaterhamclub.com/chat/showthread.php?t=534



supposedly about 1000 lbs single axle and $2300 with electric brakes. Looks actually very good in the flesh.



Gert

[slngsht]

Gert, that looks very nice.



I did talk to Dennis today about quoting a steel trailer.



He is supposed to have a fabricator get in touch with me directly.

[redbaron]

I believe that a "purpose designed" tandem axle steel frame trailer would weigh considerably less than the 1600 lbs I was quoted. These plain vanila utility trailrts have frames designed to handle the load capacity of the axles that are utilzed. Given the usual 3500. lb rating for the ususl axle this gets one to a 7,000 lb GVW. Assuming a 1600 lb. unloaded trailer weight this allows for a 5400 lb. vehicle load, far greater than the weight of a typical Lotus 7 or or Lotus 7 clone.A steel trailer designed to handle a 2000 lb. payload instead of 5400 lb. could be fabricated from lighter gage structural steel and would greatly reduce the steel versus aluminum weight differential, perhaps like the 200 lb. I alluded to prior a my prior email

[solder_guy]

I know 2 people who got this steel trailer built locally



The website will not allow me to look at the photos unless I sign up. Want to grab the pics and post here?



Rob M.

[Arya Ebrahimi]

Two more leads for steel trailers:



www.bjtrailers.com



www.kaufmantrailers.com



Both were recommended by other forums I'm on.



If you guys negotiate a discounted bulk rate from a supplier and they are willing to sell a standard "off the shelf" 16' tandem axle car hauler at the discounted rate, I may be in for one. Gonna need one soon to pull the buggy.



Ary

[slngsht]

Arya, these can be had for under $1K.



Anybody interested in pursuing the steel option?

[locostv8]

Mazda

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;That is real cheap. another alternative is a boat trailer for a larger boat with ramps put on it. I have one that I picked up for $300 it had a cat walk bed 10' x 6.5' that I intend to stretch a bit.

Jim

[Arya Ebrahimi]

Arya, these can be had for under $1K.



Anybody interested in pursuing the steel option?







You're saying you can find standard steel car haulers for less than $1k? Does that include brakes or anything?



That's CHEAP

[Catie]

I've towed a variety of different car trailers for over 20 years. I firmly believe that if towing anything with a total weight of 3000 or more pounds, you need brakes. Total weight includes everything on the other side of the hitch - trailer, car, other stuff, etc. Under 3000, and brakes are very nice to have, especially when a truck is passing or when going down a steep hill. The above is regardless of the tow vehicle. Anything over 5000 pounds behind the hitch should be towed with a decent tow vehicle - that means rear wheel drive, heavy, and a decent wheelbase. Short or lightweight haulers are dangerous when towing 5K or more. If towing over 7500 pounds, use a truck in the 1-ton range if tag, and at least a 3/4 ton if gooseneck or 5th wheel (like a Ford F250/F350 or Chevy 2500/3500).



If gas mileage matters to you, buy a lightweight open trailer, preferably with dual wheels. The difference in gas usage between an open and enclosed trailer is rather dramatic.



Every time I've tried to get away with a single axle trailer, even a sub-1000 pound trailer towing a 1400 pound car and no additional tires or storage, I've had major problems with tires. So unless you are towing less than 50 miles each way, go with dual axles on the trailer. While brakes aren't necessary on a light trailer with a light car, they are a very good safety item and should at least be considered.



Enclosed trailers take up lots of room and you can't drag them into your back yard then cover them with a tarp so they are out of sight. However if you do have room to store them, and a good truck to tow with, they sure are nice!



A few wooden slats and some really heavy canvas can turn an open trailer into an enclosed trailer. But the canvas will not last long especially if travelling on highways, and if it starts to tear apart it will whip against the car. This will at least ruin your paint job.



Aluminum trailers don't rust, should last longer, and will hold their value longer. But you need to find someone with welding talent if you want to add things like storage or a tire rack at a later date.



OK, that's my 2 cents worth....&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/wink5.gif

[slngsht]

I got a tentative price from http://www.bjtrailers.com for a 6' X 12' steel single swing axle trailer with electric brakes and a re-inforced tail gate for $1,275.

This price does not include any tiedowns, etc... I'm sure they could be added. EDIT: Also, does not include shipping.



I am waiting for a price from a local shop. This will be higher, but he used to weld stuff for Rotus, is familiar with our cars, and had some ideas on low clearance issues. I'll keep you posted. It is looking promising.<edited><editID>slngsht</editID><editDate>2006-11-14 12:02:13</editDate></edited>

[Arya Ebrahimi]

Not to rain on the parade, but everyone I've talked to in regards to this specific towing setup recommended going with a tandem axle. It's much easier on the trailer(more tires to distribute load) and the tow vehicle(less tongue weight). Also, who wants to have a car trailer that can only haul a Rotus? No offense, but if I were gonna plop down that much change for a trailer, I'd like to be able to use it for other things, including possibly other cars(taking the 'Vette to the track?).



My .02

[slngsht]

Not to rain on the parade, but everyone I've talked to in regards to this specific towing setup recommended going with a tandem axle. It's much easier on the trailer(more tires to distribute load) and the tow vehicle(less tongue weight). Also, who wants to have a car trailer that can only haul a Rotus? No offense, but if I were gonna plop down that much change for a trailer, I'd like to be able to use it for other things, including possibly other cars(taking the 'Vette to the track?).



My .02



It's a never ending cycle... Bigger trailer + bigger car = bigger tow vehicle. Some want to tow other cars, others want the lightest smallest trailer possible.



Tandem axle is definitely doable.







I *think* a Miata will fit on these.

[Kelster]

Here's an interesting little critter...





http://www.hhtrailer.com/06Aluminum.asp

[Al Navarro]

Just to put everything on the same thread...and bring this one to the "recent" pile.

Michael D's trailer here. I'm pretty sure he doesn't have brakes on it.

http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/Default.aspx?g=posts&t=119

[11Budlite]

Hi Al,

As I mentioned before, I'm definitely interested in a trailer like Michael D's or something similar. Brakes would be a nice option, too.

Bruce

[Deman USA]

Paul and I bought a 16x7 trailer, with electric brakes, rear ramp door, side door for $3999.99
heck them out at http://www.royalcargotrailers.com/
Here is the ebay link with pics & pricing.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-2007-ROYAL-ENCLOSED-7-x-16-W-RAMP-CARGO-TRAILER_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ80770QQihZ003QQ itemZ130099015764QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g285/Grkmf3/2b_0.jpg
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g285/Grkmf3/20_1.jpg
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g285/Grkmf3/a9_1.jpg
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g285/Grkmf3/96_1.jpg

Dino Trakas
Deman USA:mad:

[Al Navarro]

Dino-I wish I could tow an enclosed...our Pilot's got a very weak tow rating. Many of us are looking for an affordable light open. See you soon (Carlisle?). -Al

[Boxologist]

shame on you guys.
http://www.caterham.co.uk/assets/html/news/current_news_story.html?ID=46

[Al Navarro]

If I could steal a Brian James trailer here in the US, I would have probably already done so!:d

[Al Navarro]

Some feedback from my recent visit to the trailer place...

Aluma is too busy at the moment to build any "Michael D" specials until the end of the summer.

So they looked into other makers...

"A trailer 6 1/2 , or 6' wide on the deck, (same price either width) by 12 ft long deck, with upgraded frame and tongue ( larger box tube) a beavertail at the back, electric brakes, slide in ramps , slide under trailer, most likely from the side, so the ramp carriers do not drag the ground when going up driveways or up entrance driveways. This trailer in an Aluminum frame with 5/4 treated wood decking would start at $3100.00

Upgrade to a full aluminum deck, and it will cost $500 more. Upgrade to 2 axles both with electric brakes $600
more. In a steel frame trailer, the price with a wood deck, single axle with electric brakes would be $2700.00 double axle $600 more. steel deck add $300 Lead time for Aluminum about 4 to 5 weeks. In steel 8 to 10 weeks, (all
the steel manufacturers are very busy right now).

Would anybody else be in for a Se7en-specific trailer at these prices? Please advise ASAP. If we go this route, I'll want to place the order in the next few weeks so that I have the trailer in hand a few weeks before 7-7-7 to practice towing. Chime in or write me directly.

[11Budlite]

Any idea on the weight of the aluminum model?

Bruce

[Al Navarro]

Bruce-

He is guestimating that the weight of the aluminum single axle will be 500-600 pounds, and the double axle will be about 900-1000.

-Al

[Al Navarro]

The current dilemma:

Option A)
Custom Made "Michael D" style trailer in Aluminum.
6 or 6.5 x 12
Wood deck
Beavertail
Single Axle
Upgraded frame and tongue ( larger box tube) a beavertail at the back
Approx 500-600 lbs unloaded
Electric brakes, slide in ramps

$3100.00
Full Aluminum deck: Add $500
Double Axle (brakes on both): Add $600

Option B)
Steel utility trailer with 12" sides (I like this because I could carry junk in it too)
8.5 x 12
Wood deck
Single Axle
No Brakes
5 foot mesh ramp (I'm worried if a car will even roll on at this length)
Approx 1300 lbs unloaded
$1800 est.

Option C)
Enclosed HaulMark Transport
6 x 12
Single Axle
Brakes
6 foot ramp door
Approx 1580 lbs unloaded
$3400 est.


I find the Steel utility very tempting because of price. But the whole brakes/no brakes issue has me confused. The enclosed is within spitting distance of the aluminum open bed option, but I'm concerned about towing the enclosed in terms of stability/wind gusts.

Note that there are at least 2 other guys from the forum who are interested in a similar trailer, so perhaps a group buy would get the custom option down in price even further...additionally, we'd know that it works for our types of cars.

Sorry to beat a dead horse, but 7-7-7 is coming up fast...:ack:

[slomove]

For option C I think even a 7' wide enclosed trailer may be tight. After all, you got to strap the car down and get in and out. You would need to be a weasel to do that when 6' wide.

BTW, Ihave a Valley Odyssey proportional brake controller coming in that I ordered for $85 in anticipation of buying a used trailer with brakes. That fell through and I may not get another one anytime soon.

If somebody needs one I would part with the controller for what I bought it (new out of the box). The usual Internet price seems to be around $109 (http://www.etrailer.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=E&Product_Code=52810&Category_Code=BC).

Anybody interested?

Gert

[andrew7]

I think option B might work for you and if you need a cover buy one of those instant setup awnings that you see at the racing pits. I think if you were into serious racing now and planning every weekend traveling to a different state and track, then a larger option A fully loaded like the pics Dino posted would be the ticket. Here is mine.
http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/upload/1981891451_7pics 013.jpg
The 17hp JD will pull it anywhere, nevermine the truck just checking lights and how to strap it down. No brakes on the trailer. A 4-cyl Ranger pulled alot of weight on that trailer. The trailer bed is 6'x10' with removable 2' sides to haul mulch 'n stuff. $8 yearly registration, no inspection, and can haul over a ton. A 1 ton truck is almost $200/year registation and I still can't fit my 7 in the bed.:d

[Al Navarro]

Okay folks, I'm about to pull the trigger on option A).

Anyone else in?

Option A)
Custom Made "Michael D" style trailer in Aluminum.
6 or 6.5 x 12
Wood deck
Beavertail
Single Axle
Upgraded frame and tongue ( larger box tube) a beavertail at the back
Approx 500-600 lbs unloaded
Electric brakes, slide in ramps

$3350.00 (still waiting for break down of everything, which I'll forward to all interested parties.

[11Budlite]

Hi Al,

Is it still $500 more for the aluminum deck? Do you know if he'd do a partial deck for less?

I'm still interested.

Bruce

[Al Navarro]

Bruce-

I'm going to send you an email with the deets. I put in my order today, just to get the ball rolling so I get a trailer by the end of June. I'm sure you can add to the mix if you want to within the next week or so.

-Al

[11Budlite]

Jeff and Al,

Don't know if either of you has picked up your trailer yet, but Glenn told me my trailer would be ready for Saturday pick-up. If all goes as planned I'll be picking it up Saturday AM and would love to touch base with you two if you were there. Let me know.

Bruce

[Al Navarro]

Funny that you mention it Bruce...I'm dropping off my tow vehicle tomorrow AM to get the brake controller installed. Which means that, since my wife is shooting a wedding on Sat, that I'll have to drive a certain Orange car to pick up the trailer & tow vehicle. :d

When can you get there (Flanders, NJ is obviously a lot closer to me than you)? Feel free to PM or email.

[11Budlite]

Hi Al,

I emailed you also , but my wife Nancy and I will be there between 8 and 8:30 Saturday morning. Look forward to meeting you and checking out your Orange Cat!! :d

Bruce

[Al Navarro]

Sounds like a plan...maybe we can grab a bite before you guys go on your way...there's an applebys nearby.

[11Budlite]

Sounds good. See you Saturday! :)

Bruce

[jwduncan]

Bruce and Al,

I was pleasantly surprised to hear that it's in and I'm planning to pick it up this Saturday. I'm driving up from VA so I'm guessing I'll get there between 10 and 11am.

Brake controller already installed in the tow vehicle. :)

[slngsht]

So, how much are these trailers setting you back? :bigears:

I ended up going the cheapo route with a 16' dual axle steel trailer. With that setup, my friend went in with me to split the cost.

As usual, I bought something used that requires work, so here I am 6 days before leaving, and I'm working on the trailer now :lol:

[Al Navarro]

Final cost depended on options. Like our Se7ens, I don't think the three of us ended up with the same thing.

See previous posts for ballpark costs.

Jeff-I'll leave my phone number with the Trailer place or email you...call when you get in.

-Al

[Al Navarro]

I saw all 3 trailers this morning. I'll post pix of mine, and send Jeff and Bruce theirs...

The spare is steel, but the others are pretty nice Aluminum wheels. However, I'm switching mine out to something less "bling-bling", because as the kids say "that's not how I roll".

http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/upload/1234677357_AlTrailer.jpg

http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/upload/256395866_AlTrailer2.jpg

[Al Navarro]

Met Jeff and Bruce (and his wife Nancy) today up at Performance Trailer. Great to meet you all.

Bruce and I drove our trailers home...Jeff's needs a little minor tweaking to fit in the garage where it will be parked.

I swapped out the aluminum wheels for some less "bling bling" steel powdercoated jobs that appealed to me more....this also allowed Jeff & Bruce to use my extra ali wheels for their spares. Looking at these pix, the aluminum ones aren't actually as bling as I remember...but I don't mind the purposefulness of the steel.

We had a nice lunch at the nearby Applebee's (Jon's going to think I take all my Se7eners there :d) then parted ways. I was standing out in the sun for a while, and am very glad that I got a sun hat for Fathers Day — it got hot!

Anyways, here in the office to finalize the 7-7-7 program, then the Herculean task of packing the Pilot. The trailer and car seem to be very compatible with the Pilot. I definitely notice the difference, but it's not like I'm dragging aronud a boat anchor or something. It's a trip to look in the rearview and see Orange seemingly floating in the air behind me.


Al N., Jeff D., Bruce W.

http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/upload/1357526184_ThreeSeveners.jpg


http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/upload/1789695885_IMG_1575.jpg

http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/upload/2104000944_IMG_1576.jpg

http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/upload/709134686_IMG_1577.jpg

[scannon]

Great looking trailers!

[11Budlite]

It was great to meet both Jeff and Al!! Had a great visit and got to check out Al's beautiful Caterham. Sorry that Jeff couldn't take his trailer back with him.

I'm very happy with the trailer! It seems strong and well built and it looks perfect for my needs. The only difference between my trailer and Al's was the "bling-bling" wheels and the aluminum deck. It was a little too dark by the time I got home so I'll take some pictures tomorrow. I'm sure the reason we got home so late had nothing to do with my "navigator" and myself missing the rt 287 exit and sending us through New York City over the GW Bridge on a Saturday/holiday afternoon...UGH
:banghead:

Thanks again to Al for all the work he did to get the trailers built!!

Bruce

[Al Navarro]

You know that scene in Austin Powers where he's trying to k-turn that skid steer thingy in a corridor that's getting increasingly narrow? And he keeps going backwards and forwards and not really getting anywhere?

That was me trying to maneuver the trailer around the parking area at my house last night. I ended up leaving the trailer and tow vehicle in my side lawn — classy!

It'll definitely take some practice. :willy: :willy: :willy:

[slngsht]

You know that scene in Austin Powers where he's trying to k-turn that skid steer thingy in a corridor that's getting increasingly narrow? And he keeps going backwards and forwards and not really getting anywhere?

That was me trying to maneuver the trailer around the parking area at my house last night. I ended up leaving the trailer and tow vehicle in my side lawn — classy!

It'll definitely take some practice. :willy: :willy: :willy:

:lol: the mental picture :lol:

[11Budlite]

Just a couple pics for anyone interested in what the aluminum deck model looks like. It was $500 extra, but should require no more maintenance. :)

Bruce

http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/upload/1989150092_IMG_0135.JPG

http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/upload/324709842_IMG_0140.JPG

[slngsht]

man, that's just :cool:

[scannon]

Has anyone weighed one yet?

[11Budlite]

Not yet, but when I figure out the best way to do it I'll let you know. Do you think 3 bathroom scales would work? Not sure where there's a truck scale local to me...

Bruce

[slngsht]

Not a fansy setup, but it'll do the job.

I still have some work to do to it after the Dragon, such as adding some storage in front, a winch, etc...

I did end up having to raise the car 1" so that the oil pan clears the dove tail section.

http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/upload/1969018136_CIMG1638 (Small).JPG

http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/upload/428585157_CIMG1639 (Small).JPG

[scannon]

Not yet, but when I figure out the best way to do it I'll let you know. Do you think 3 bathroom scales would work? Not sure where there's a truck scale local to me...

Bruce

I've used the scales at a landscaping supply outlet to weigh cars in the past. They usually have accurate digital scales since they are involved in commerce and selling by weight.

You could also use three of the scales from a corner weighting setup.

[MHKflyer52]

Hi Bruce,

Nice trailer. Just be carfull if loading or unloading when the deck is wet as it can be very slick. Again very nice.

[Al Navarro]

I thought I'd share some observations after towing my "USA7s Special" Mission trailer for over 1600 miles. This trailer was inspired by Michael D's Aluma, but since Aluma didn't seem that interestedin making more on a timely basis...Performance Trailer (traileroutlet.com) found a manufacturer that would work with us. My config is 14 foot wood deck with single axle, electronic brakes, rear stab jacks (so you can load/unload without being hitched to a tow vehicle) and a spare tire mount. It has a 2 foot beavertail and 6 foot ramps.

We use a Honda Pilot SUV 4WD to tow, and it doesn't have the highest tow rating. So the single axle aluminum trailer was a great way to go. I mostly towed in D3, as the Pilot would hunt betwen D4 and Overdrive otherwise. Unfortunately it does not have a D4 option on the selector. We got about 13 mpg with the trailer and SUV fully loaded. There was noticeable squat in the back, but not the worst I've seen on other vehicles towing...nor did I ever feel like my steering was compromised by lightness of the front end.

We did get an electric brake controller, which I found to be helpful...when the trailer was unladen, it would lock up at low speeds at the normal setting, and I could dial that back. Mostly I drove with the controller set between 1.5 and 2.5. Only ONCE did I feel like "Oh, wow, my braking distance there was longer than I planned"...but I think that was early on in the trip and a factor of me not being used to towing.

The racheting straps and hold downs I bought from Performance Trailer worked really well, as did their adjustable tie down rack - this lets you snap in mounting points wherever you want on a strip that's mounted to the floor of the trailer (full width). You can plug the locking point down in about 2 inch increments. I ended up strapping down off the front suspension bits (at the thickest points, outside the lower shock mount) and pulling those straight forward, then doing the rear through the wheels and crossed...I had tried the front through the wheels and crossed (mostly to get more length into the straps), but didn't like the way I the wheels seemed to toe in more if I tried to crank down on the straps...I released them right away...didn not notice any adverse affects.

Having loaded the car in the hot sun before heading down...I can say that the metal gets hot to the touch. For this reason, I'm glad I went with a wood (it saved me $500 too) deck. I can't imagine what a ali deck would be like after a day in the auto-x sun. Not to mention slippery when wet.

I do have some thoughts about improving future versions of the trailer, like incorporating a winch (in case you break down and don't have the folks from Illinois to help load you) and also building some sort of modular tire rack. I'm going to try and discuss these with Glenn E. soon, perhaps he'll use my trailer as the guinea pig for these upgrades and we can establish a line item price for these things. Additionally, I think the end of the ramps could be tapered (though the square section never really was a problem to roll over) a tad and the mounting racks somehow have teflon sliders built in so there's less friction sliding them in and out.

As a total trailering newbie, I am very pleased with the trailer and how it has performed so far. NOTE that the outside to outside width of these trailers is more than 92"...probably around 95" as currently configured, though Glenn is working with another Se7ener to make them narrower...easily removeable fenders are also going in the mix.

[locostv8]

http://wrangler.rutgers.edu/gallery/d/43330-2/DSC00831.JPG

This is my little flat bed trailer constructed from a boat trailer and galvinized catwalk, one primary feature is that it was only $350. The overall trailer is HEAVY, but very useful. To tow the 7 I will be adding removeable tire buckets front and rear to lengthen the trailer currently 10x6.5. The nice thing about the decking is that the entire deck is a tie down point and generaly is not slippery when wet. I believe the catwalk is available in aluminum. As the 7 frame is being constructed tie down points will be welded to the chassis front and rear.

[manik]

That galvanized catwalk is a really interesting prospect for a trailer. The rear edge of it would have to be capped off in some fashion to avoid the 'sharpness' of it. What's the weight differential between this material and a regular wood/aluminum deck? You would think it would be less heavy (more light?) than other alternatives, but the thickness might get you.

Any other advantages/disadvantages?


tm

[locostv8]

That galvanized catwalk is a really interesting prospect for a trailer. The rear edge of it would have to be capped off in some fashion to avoid the 'sharpness' of it. What's the weight differential between this material and a regular wood/aluminum deck? You would think it would be less heavy (more light?) than other alternatives, but the thickness might get you.

Any other advantages/disadvantages?


tm

I have considered covering the ends with angle and probably will as a part of fitting removeable tire pockets. One definate advantage is it is nearly indestructable, and no water puddles to slip on. One advantage of the trailer is ease of loading since it is low and no obstructions. I had a 16' trailer that had a rotted wood deck when I got it which I replaced with a lighter ga catwalk grate, other than carying the materials I have no proof as to weight differential but after carying the water soaked wood I believe the resualtan trailer would have been lighter.

[ottocycle]

Hello everyone.
For what it is worth I would recommend a material called "Grip tape", available from marine suppilers as a way of increasing traction on slippery surfaces. It is like a self adhesive wet and dry sandpaper available in a number of sizes. I faced the problem of trailering a lightweight car a few years ago and designed and built my own. I could not see the sense in using a 2,000lb. trailer to tow a 1,000lb. car. I used a torsion axle rated at 2,000lbs. and ended up with a pretty lightweight unit. I would prefer to have a 3,500lb. axle as it would enable me to carry a wider range of cars. It is worth considering a heavier trailer for that reason. (come to think of it, maybe not--everybody will be asking for your services!!!!). Having built one, I too have a number of ideas I would like to incorporate in a re-design. I would like to enclose it. It would effectivly give me another garage bay which I need badly. I am thinking of building the cover out of foam and thin marine plywood covered in glass fiber cloth. Most trailers out there are over engineered in that they often use heavy 1/8 "(or more) box section steel in a ladder frame design and get their stiffness and strength as a result of material mass. Think spaceframe!!

On a laterally related note, I am interested in getting a new tow vehicle. I am interested in a used station wagon or minivan. I am looking for recommendations. Like everyone else I am looking for something that has plenty of room and power, gets 1000 MPG, is reliable, has all the bells and whistles, was owned by a little old lady who only drove it to church, and is cheap!!! I drove a 2001 Volvo turbo wagon last week and liked it but think a minivan would carry more stuff. I had a Chevy Astro before but found it had lousy build quality. The engine and trans were fine but things like door handles switches etc. were crap. I need to loook at at an Odyssey, Previa etc. Any suggestions guys?

I'm sorry I missed the TOD run. It looks like you guys had a great time. I was involved in the "24 hours of LeMons" in California. Google it or check it out on U Tube. Altamont never had seen such action since the Rolling Stones came to town!

Mazda, I hope to make your September drive. Sounds like fun.
Thanks all,

Dermot.
Fury/Hayabusa.
Bethesda, MD.

[slomove]

On a laterally related note, I am interested in getting a new tow vehicle.

I am very happy with my 2004 Hyundai Santa Fe (2.7 V6) as a tow vehicle (FWD). Relatively inexpensive, has 10 years power-train warranty (but never been to the shop except tune-up) and is rated to tow 2700 pounds when equipped with ABS (lightweight trailer plus Seven). I found the engine well sufficient to exceed any freeway speed limit when towing even in the mountains.

I get about 20-23 mpg out of it on the highway (never measured with trailer, though). Newer models can tow a little more but I heard the bigger V6 uses more gas.

Gert

[slngsht]

Hello everyone.
For what it is worth I would recommend a material called "Grip tape", available from marine suppilers as a way of increasing traction on slippery surfaces. It is like a self adhesive wet and dry sandpaper available in a number of sizes. I faced the problem of trailering a lightweight car a few years ago and designed and built my own. I could not see the sense in using a 2,000lb. trailer to tow a 1,000lb. car. I used a torsion axle rated at 2,000lbs. and ended up with a pretty lightweight unit. I would prefer to have a 3,500lb. axle as it would enable me to carry a wider range of cars. It is worth considering a heavier trailer for that reason. (come to think of it, maybe not--everybody will be asking for your services!!!!). Having built one, I too have a number of ideas I would like to incorporate in a re-design. I would like to enclose it. It would effectivly give me another garage bay which I need badly. I am thinking of building the cover out of foam and thin marine plywood covered in glass fiber cloth. Most trailers out there are over engineered in that they often use heavy 1/8 "(or more) box section steel in a ladder frame design and get their stiffness and strength as a result of material mass. Think spaceframe!!

On a laterally related note, I am interested in getting a new tow vehicle. I am interested in a used station wagon or minivan. I am looking for recommendations. Like everyone else I am looking for something that has plenty of room and power, gets 1000 MPG, is reliable, has all the bells and whistles, was owned by a little old lady who only drove it to church, and is cheap!!! I drove a 2001 Volvo turbo wagon last week and liked it but think a minivan would carry more stuff. I had a Chevy Astro before but found it had lousy build quality. The engine and trans were fine but things like door handles switches etc. were crap. I need to loook at at an Odyssey, Previa etc. Any suggestions guys?

I'm sorry I missed the TOD run. It looks like you guys had a great time. I was involved in the "24 hours of LeMons" in California. Google it or check it out on U Tube. Altamont never had seen such action since the Rolling Stones came to town!

Mazda, I hope to make your September drive. Sounds like fun.
Thanks all,

Dermot.
Fury/Hayabusa.
Bethesda, MD.

I pulled mine with an Odyssey. My car is heavy, and so is my trailer. It's a 16' dual axle steel job - a regular car hauler. I know that combo is a little too much for the Ody, but a light weight 7 on an aluminum trailer will be just fine.
Make sure you post up in the Sept. blat thread.

:cheers:

[scannon]

I pull a 1,400 lb, 18' aluminum tiltbed trailer with a 1,338 lb Se7en on board with an '05 Subaru Legacy GT wagon. No problems with towing at 85 mph. The trailer has electric brakes on both axles.

I am concerned about towing over I-70 while the construction is going on in the Eisenhower tunnel. Traffic is stop and go for a mile or so prior to the tunnel on some of the steeper grades and I don't think the clutch will live through more than 2 or 3 stops and starts. I have two trips scheduled over this route this summer and have arranged to borrow a GMC pickup with V8 and towing package for those trips.

Otherwise I am very happy with the Subie as a tow vehicle.

Skip

[locostv8]

http://forums.corner-carvers.com/showthread.php?t=34978

[BirkinBernie]

I finally broke down a few months ago and bought an Aluma in preparation for our trip to 777. But I went with a smaller one. It weighs 540 lbs, and tows very well behind our '97 Outback. Car with trailer is 1800 lbs give or take a few, well within Scoobie's 2000 lb rating. The deck is 10 ft x 77 inches, and overall it is 102 inches wide.

Unfortunately, other unexpected expenses came up and our trip to 777 got sunk. Car isn't tied down in the pic - it was the first test-fit.....

Bernie

http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/upload/372046174_trailerfront.jpg