A US Club?

[Al Navarro]

There is an opportunity for us to establish a "US" chapter of the

motherland's Lotus 7 Club.



Does anyone have thoughts on this? Should there be 3 US Chapters? (East,

Central, West)?



Does anyone feel like being the main rep? (Note, this person should

probably be a Lotus or Cat 7 owner...based on club relationships with

factory). Please chime in or write ot me off board: al@mintadv.com

[spindr]

Al,



Do you know how many members of the the L7 Club of GB are

located in the US?



I'm a member and know that somewhere I have see that

number. I suspect that the membership secy might also be able

to give you a break down of US members by state. This might

give you some idea on the number of chapters make sense.

The location of Caterham dealers is probably a factor in club

member distribution.



Jeremy

[Al Navarro]

I'll make inquries. Thanks for the interest.

[slngsht]

however you decide to proceed, count on my support. I don't have a Caterham, so I'll stay out of the lead...



This forum can be reconfigured to accomodate things if necessary.

[xflow7]

<DIV>Personally, I think this would be a very good idea for 3 reasons:</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>1) In my experience some specialty car insurance companies and state DMV's like to see formal&nbsp;club membership as a sort of a "check" on the validity of a person's claim that their car is special and deserving of being treated as a collector or specialty vehicle.&nbsp; I think having a recognized US or NA club that a new owner could join and point to might ease the registration and insurance procedures depending on where they live.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>2) Having a formal(-ish)&nbsp;club might open up additional opportunities for group discounts and such and ease organization of group trackdays, tours, etc (although it appears the&nbsp;reception of&nbsp;the 7-7-7&nbsp;gathering has been very good&nbsp;even without a formal club affiliation).&nbsp; Anyhow, I believe these sort of benefits would entice more people on this side of the pond to join the Lotus 7 Club who can't quite justify paying full membership only&nbsp;for Low Flying and BC access.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>3)&nbsp;Currently there are&nbsp;several good US Seven-related&nbsp;web sites and forums, not to mention the e-mail list, but as a new owner, or one not previously engaged with the online community it&nbsp;can be&nbsp;difficult to become&nbsp;aware of all of them.&nbsp; Now, I wouldn't necessarily advocate that they all be merged and lose their identity or anything like that, but&nbsp;I think having some kind of a central "official"&nbsp;US club site and forum (either stand-alone, or as part of the mothership) would help to further build on the&nbsp; community&nbsp;of Seven owners over here.&nbsp; Individual local sites could be accessed from the US chapter site for region-specific stuff, but the central site would&nbsp;provide a ready, "one-stop-shopping" resource for current, new and prospective owners.&nbsp; It would be a logical place for US-specific Seven-ing FAQ's and such.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>All just MHO of course.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Dave</DIV>

[Al Navarro]

Dave-



I'm with you on all fronts. I just got my car last summer, and I especially

agree with the "one-stop-shopping" thing.



-Al

[slngsht]

<div>3)*Currently there are*several good US Seven-related*web sites and forums, not to mention the e-mail list, but as a new owner, or one not previously engaged with the online community it*can be*difficult to become*aware of all of them.* Now, I wouldn't necessarily advocate that they all be merged and lose their identity or anything like that, but*I think having some kind of a central "official"*US club site and forum (either stand-alone, or as part of the mothership) would help to further build on the* community*of Seven owners over here.* Individual local sites could be accessed from the US chapter site for region-specific stuff, but the central site would*provide a ready, "one-stop-shopping" resource for current, new and prospective owners.* It would be a logical place for US-specific Seven-ing FAQ's and such.</div>

<div>*</div>

<div>All just MHO of course.</div>

<div>*</div>

<div>Dave</div>



Dave, one thing I'm starting on this site is a links page. Alot of sites have links pages, and I hope to be able to capture as much as possible (I started a thread here: >http://www.usa7s.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=153&PN=1 (http://www.usa7s.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=153&PN=1). The link page will be pretty comprehensive. It will be categorized through a treeview (similar to windows explorer), with categories for enthusiast sites, forums and mailing lists, parts suppliers, how-to sites, manufacturers, etc...



I just started development on that last night - totally independent of this discussion.

[JohnCh]

<P>I would love to see a US Se7ens club, but I would prefer to see one that openly embraces all cars of the genre.&nbsp; Kind of like this site or the se7ens list http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/smiley2.gif&nbsp;&nbsp; If this US club was associated with L7GB, then I don't see that happening.&nbsp; As Al alluded to in his initial post, there are political issues at play in such a scenario.</P>
<P>In the UK where there are relatively&nbsp;large numbers of Caterhams, Westfields, Tigers, Dax, and others, it makes sense for each make to have its own club.&nbsp; Here in the States, however, the numbers are small enough that I think we could benefit by all working together -- Caterhams, Westfields, Birkins, Stalkers, WCM Ultralites, Locosts, etc.&nbsp;&nbsp; I have a dream...http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/smiley2.gif</P>
<P>-John</P>

[Al Navarro]

John, welcome to the forum. I assume you are one of the folks who

showed us "how the West was driven"! (I love the PNW, and wish it were

closer so I could sport around with you all next year...please show the

UKers Crescent Lake in Olympic, and the road to ShiShi or Hurricane

Ridge.)



Believe it or not, I think the UK core folks are open to us Yanks doing

what works for us diversity-wise and NOT being overly exclusive (perhaps

we'll draw the line at Fisher Furies or Ginettas, lovely as those rides might

be).



As shown by the 7-7-7 event, I am very in favor of all of us LSiSers

working together to spread the gospel of "add lightness".



Since you're on the left coast, what are your thoughts on the necessity for

more than one USA chapter? Perhaps we start with just one and add as

needed?

[snettleship]

<P>Any chance you can have a Lotus Seven USA club that has two "classes" of Sevens?&nbsp; The Lotus/Caterham "bloodline" class and to quote a recent book on the topic the Seven "Independants"?</P>
<P>Scott</P>

[slngsht]

Scott, not a bad idea (just speaking for myself here). I'm all for preserving the original Seven bloodline.



I'm not sure how that would work in practice though. I can definitely see the "bloodline" being applied if/when the club gets seriously involved in car shows.



The club can also make an effort to deliniate Lotus/Caterham and the "independents" when it comes to historical things (I'm not sure what they would be - since I'm personally not big into history)



But for any other type of event, how do you see it? It'd be silly to have a cruise and say only Lotus / Caterham can show up. The thing I enjoyed most about our skyline outing was getting together with the other loose nuts behind the wheel.



Please don't take anything I've said here as something we would definitely do or not do. We're pretty early into this thing, and there is alot to consider.



I just joined up on the UK Lotus list to have a look-see.



As far as this site is concerned, Club or not, I'll do what I can to keep it from getting involved in class warfare, so I'll do whatever it takes to promote the preservation of the original in a way that doesn't have a negative impact on the "community" feeling of the site.



I appreciate your input.



Thanks

[JohnCh]

<FONT size=2>
<P>Yep, I was on USA 2005 and am joining up for most of PNW 2007 as well. Should be a lot of fun, but sadly I think UK involvement will be zero. Those folks had so many problems getting their cars back home that I don't think any will want to go through that process again in the near future.&nbsp; I would love to join you folks for the 7-7-7 event, but that is a bit too far away for me.</P>
<P>It's good to hear that the L7GB leadership is open to us doing things our way. However, I'm curious what benefit we get by associating with them, rather than start something on our own? Low Flying is nice, but it isn't that relevant to non-Caterham owning folks on this side of the pond. Ditto for the events, discounts, track days, etc. Are they creating a separate American Forum in BlatChat similar to what the Atom Club has done? What about fees? Are they the same as in the UK? If so, does that mean we get all the benefits mentioned above? </P>
<P>I would love to drive interest in se7ens here in the US, and think a club is a great way to do it, but I would prefer to do something that is truly agnostic rather than piggyback on the club of any one marque. I think there are enough of us in this country who are passionate about se7ens that we could start a grassroots club which would help pull all of us closer together.</P>
<P>-John</P></FONT>

[slngsht]

John, Fees and benefits, as they would relate to the UK club, are one of the topics Al and I are discussing.

[snettleship]

<P>I was think the "bloodline" idea is what can be good for a car show and also can provide a direct affiliation&nbsp;from a&nbsp;Seven USA club&nbsp;to any other&nbsp;Lotus related type of club (e.g. Lotus NA, GB Lotus 7 Club...).</P>
<P>From a membership and activities level I view the "independants" as being equals and being there to show how the world has taken the original Lotus Seven through the last 50 years and beyond.</P>
<P>Just thinking out loud.</P>
<P>Scott</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>

[JohnCh]

<P>Boy, I have a feeling I am going to step into the crossfire with this post, and I hope it doesn't come across harshly, but…</P>
<P>I'm not a fan of the Bloodline concept. To me a Lotus 7 is a Lotus, and a Caterham is a Caterham. Yes, the latter company purchased the rights to continue production and until recently the same company produced the chassis, but to me that doesn't make it a Lotus 7. Birkin has the rights to reproduce the S3 in South Africa, so shouldn't they get the same treatment? Also what do you do with the CSR? The chassis is made by Caged, not Arch. The suspension was designed by Multimatic, not Lotus, and the performance and price target are leagues away from Chapman's original concept. To me Caterham has it's own heritage created over the last 30 years and to tout the tie-in to Lotus just diminishes those accomplishments. </P>
<P>I personally believe we should view all of the cars as Se7ens. Tiny, doorless vehicles inspired by the Lotus 7. Why stratify them? </P>
<P>As for access to Lotus clubs, I guess it will vary by region, but the Lotus club in the Seattle area actually approached me to join.&nbsp; Most of the Lotus Club regions are so small they are always looking to affiliate themselves with others.</P>
<P>-John (awaiting the barrage)</P>

[Al Navarro]

Here's a thought for everyone to chew on:



"The United Sevens of America"



Whether or not your car was breathed on by Colin Chapman or not, we all

have gravitated toward a formula...the "four-wheeled motorbike" concept.

Cars which live up to the "add lightness" way of motoring.



It's interesting to see that Lotus Ltd. has 3 show classes for A) Original

Lotus Sevens, B) Caterham 7s, and C) Replicas (since Tony M. won first in

this category, I'm assuming they put Birkins in this bucket).



For our 7-7-7 event, I doubt we'll have classes....although I've been

thinking that we should have 2 car show votes per attendee: Best of breed

(meaning what you own) as well as (best of other)....this way those Stalker

guys can't get together and stack the deck - JUST KIDDING!



(As I count it, the 7-7-7 group so far is 50% Lotus/Cat and 50%

independents)

[slngsht]

I think the extent of the whole Lotus vs. XYZ has to be limited to car shows only - even then, only if we collectively agree it's needed (so far we have some for and against).



The few of you who know me, know that I'm totally not into doing car shows. I just want to meet and chat with the rest of you, go for some fun drives, work on the cars, and learn.



So, I'll be a fly on the wall on the discussion regarding car show classes, and take it all in.

[slngsht]

Alright, I know I said I'll be a fly on the wall here, but let me float one more thought...



How about car shows be run by local clubs (as they are today), and only supported by the national club - in terms of marketing, or whatever support can be extended (newsletter? promotional material? etc...).



For each show, the participants follow whatever rules the local club has traditionally set forth.



K... back to being a fly.

[mr2dux]

<P>Hi all</P>
<P>I'm with John C. on this one, I think we should invite all comers.&nbsp; Certainly a group and forum of this nature is about cars, but mostly its about the community of people who are nuts enough and passionate enough to drive 'em.&nbsp; I think it is this community that is the essence of this sort of club, and anything that falls within the seven'esque sort of profile should qualify.&nbsp; </P>
<P>Hmmm, maybe an improbability factor should be used to screen out cars that are just too common, so we could include any car that falls at least 2.736 standard deviations from the mean......</P>
<P>FWIW</P>
<P>Mark/ Dayton, OH</P>

[xflow7]

Admin Edit: Moved part about the links page to: >http://www.usa7s.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=153&PN=1 (http://www.usa7s.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=153&PN=1)





As for the other issue on the table, count me among those in favor of keeping the club inclusive.* For me personally, as a Caterham owner, there is maybe a benefit to being formally affiliated with L7CGB for access to Blatchat and the resources of an additional established base of owners for Caterham-specific issues.* Having said that I do view the attitudes of some members over there towards other similar vehicles with some distaste and am completely in favor of making it a standing principle of a US club (be it affiliated or not with L7CGB) that it would not be brand specific from a membership or event participation perspective.I very much like Al's concept of the LSIS (or whoever coined that) for the purposes of establishing the boundaries of the club.* Sure, there may come a point in time when additional clarification is needed to determine what is an LSIS and what isn't, but it seems to me that at the moment that it is fairly clear.* It's sort of in that category of "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it" and I've a feeling that most of us, shown a bunch of pictures of little sportscars, would point to the same ones as LSIS's.Logistically, I think there is an argument for some division by marque for Tech Forums (at least once participation really picks up), although with the number of different types of LSIS it becomes difficult to not end up with some silly number of categories.* But maybe something like:Birkin TechCaterham TechLocost TechUltralite TechWestfield Tech(don't be offended if I forgot your LSIS)Powertrain Tech (given that many of us, irrespective of chassis, are running the same lumps, gearboxes, and maybe diffs).I will also stay out of the show discussion as that's not really my thing.Dave<edited><editID>slngsht</editID><editDate>38933.8230787037</editDate></edited>

[BirkinBernie]

<P>Hi all,</P>
<P>My first post here.&nbsp; As background, I own a Birkin I built from the very basic kit.&nbsp; I also chair the Annual Southwest Se7ens Festival, and am "owner" of the birkinowners Yahoo group.</P>
<P>One of the things essential to the Se7ens Festival is it all inclusive nature.&nbsp;&nbsp;One of you used the term earlier;&nbsp;the event is brand agnostic.&nbsp; This year we had Caterhams, Birkins, Locosts, Ultralites and a Stalker in attendance.&nbsp; I simply have no interest in belonging to a club that doesn't whole-heartedly embrace this kind of inclusive behaviour.&nbsp; I have no problem with people that feel that the club should discriminate - that is their right.&nbsp; I just don't care to support a club like that.&nbsp; And that is the way the British Lotus 7 club is.</P>
<P>If it walks like a Se7en and talks like a Se7en, it's a Se7en.&nbsp; The wonderful group of&nbsp;Brits on the Tour last year felt that way and we had a blast.&nbsp; I've always been amazed at how a common interest in a type of car can make you feel like the long time friend of someone you have just met.</P>
<P>I have wanted to see a national Se7ens organization for a while now.&nbsp; And affiliating with an existing group would be a good way to start, for a couple of reasons.&nbsp; One of the primary benefits of having a national club is insurance.&nbsp; The club has a chance to get big enough to afford some kind of liability insurance.&nbsp; I am always a little nervous about the Se7ens Festival from a liability standpoint.&nbsp; That is why I have been holding the event in conjunction with a NASA race weekend.&nbsp; At least they have insurance and my personal exposure is somewhat limited.&nbsp; Affiliating with a club in England would do us no good from this standpoint.&nbsp; IMHO, this reason alone is enough to&nbsp;reject the idea. Perhaps some kind of affilitation with Lotus Ltd would be possible.&nbsp; I intend to talk to some folks about that at LOG this year (10 miles from home!).&nbsp; Failing that, I'm not sure how to crack this nut.&nbsp; What are those of you organizing the 7-7-7 meet next year doing about liability?&nbsp; Being responsible for an event held on public roads would make me very nervous indeed without some kind of liability insurance......</P>
<P>As for the mailing list issue, I think that the individual lists like birkinowners have their place.&nbsp; There is enough traffic specific to Birkins that someone who owns a Westfield might not be interested.&nbsp;&nbsp; Not to say that they aren't welcome on the list - we have Ultralite, Caterham, Locost etc owners and they make major contributions.</P>
<P>Anyhoo, just my $.02 - sorry it got a bit long.&nbsp; I'm going to look at trailers tomorrow - I really want to meet all of you on the 7th day of the 7th month next year!</P>
<P>Best regards, and Happy Se7ening!</P>
<P>Bernie Long </P>
<P>Keller, TX</P>

[slngsht]

Bernie, thanks for the post, and glad the registration issues are resolved.



To summarize, I think EVERYONE agrees that:



1- All Sevens are welcome in this club

2- All club events will be inclusive



The above points have been the basis of conversations Al and I had from the start, and I will make sure those are not forgotten (particularly since I have a Rotus <img border="0" src="smileys/smiley36.gif[/img] ).



Now, to the other points you raised... You are right, the UK Club's liability insurance will not cover us. Al and I are working on this issue.



In terms of supporting all the various brands (something xflow raised as well), this forum was originally setup with Tech sections for all the major players. But since there were only 20 members at the time, I deleted the sections. I will happily add them back to accomodate the members.

[Al Navarro]

Bernie...so glad you chimed in. I caught the GREAT write-up in Kit Car of your event. Very cool. And totally in the spirit of what we're trying to do with 7-7-7 at Tail of the Dragon. I think quite a few trailer purchases will be made between now and next July. I am leaning toward an Aluma (although the Trailex is nice too).



Do what you can to get Keith Tanner down to the Dragon...I think the Locosts should be represented, and he seems to be the dean of that particular school.

[Al Navarro]

I wanted to air a few thoughts regarding a US club.



I agree that both membership and events will be 1000% INCLUSIVE. We'll let the individual event planners and or regional/local sub-chapters decide on classes for shows and other events (auto-x?). But everyone is welcome.



While Mazda and I are sorting out the insurance bit, I will say that I would like to align with the British Club. For two reasons — from what I know, they are well funded and even try to chip in for regional events (according to what I read in Low Flying). Additionally, I think Low Flying is a pretty great little publication. I could see a regular "Across the Pond" column.



I would recommend aligning with IK, but paying a reduced fee to cover only membership (for overhead, membership card, etc.), and LF subscription (including postage)...NOT paying anything towards UK insurance but rather using whatever that portion is to offset the cost of US insurance (or just handling the insurance on an as needed basis).



Also, I think it would make sense to have regional coordinators (as divided up here at USA7s.com) in addition to one main contact to serve as liason to the UK. It's clear to me that the California folks can and do get together, and of course, us "Skyline Seveners" out east.



We'd use this great resource Mazda has built for us as our version of "Blat Chat", but also have privileges over there.

[spindr]

Have you all seen this site?

http://www.radiose7en.com/

Seems to do a good job of separating out the various 7 manufacturers.



Jeremy

[JohnCh]

While Mazda and I are sorting out the insurance bit, I will say that I would like to align with the British Club.

For two reasons — from what I know, they are well funded and even try to chip in for regional events (according to what I read in Low Flying). Additionally, I think Low Flying is a pretty great little publication. I could see a regular "Across the Pond" column. I would recommend aligning with IK, but paying a reduced fee to cover only membership (for overhead, membership card, etc.), and LF subscription (including postage)...



I would love to belong to a US se7ens club and am happy to get involved to make it happen, but I don't want to join the US Caterham club -- and regardless of the name, L7GB* *is* the Caterham club.* Although LF is a very nice little publication, the ads and articles are almost exclusively about Caterhams with the occasional nod to the Lotus 7.* There is no mention of other se7en makes, and I can't believe the editors will change that policy for us.* I hate to think that a significant portion of my dues will go towards a publication that targets only a segment of the US membership.

<div>*</div>

I believe we need to take a closer look at our objective.* If it is to take the simplest path to having a club, then I agree that aligning with L7GB or WSCC, or some other club has merit.* However, if the goal of the club is to bring all US se7en owners together and to spread the word on these great little cars -- regardless of manufacturer -- then I think we should start something ourselves.* Thanks to Mazda, we already have the forum.* We can do an e-newsletter while getting started, and we can help people in various regions to hook up.* Over time we can sort out the liability issues and begin to officially coordinate/sponsor events.* But it would be *our* club.* Given the state of the US se7ens market, some of the US distributors/manufacturers of the various makes may even be open to sponsorship opportunities.* If we are the US arm of L7GB, I can guarantee that isn't going to happen http://www.usa7s.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif

<div>*</div>

<div>-John</div><edited><editID>JohnCh</editID><editDate>2006-08-07 06:59:36</editDate></edited>

[Al Navarro]

Great points John.



With everything else going on in my life (777 not the least), I am inclined to err on the side of simplicity.



But if you and others have the time and energy to take up the banner this year, I would support that too. As I mentioned to Mazda in a phone call this weekend, I don't have teh time to generate a newsletter this year, and would like to stay away from teh money side of things too.



Perhaps a summit meeting on this in the Fall or Winter? It would be great to be able to make 7-7-7 the "official" kickoff for it.

[slngsht]

One more update for today. I called around for club insurance, and the rates are in the $250 - $300 a year range, so they are very reasonable.



On the subject of expenses, my preference is to keep them as low as possible - hopefully around $1000 per year or less, including website operations, etc... I would like to raise that money through one or two events during the year, and if possible, avoid membership fees.



Books would be open to all the members, probably posted on a special web page accessible by members on this site.

[Al Navarro]

Soliciting more input...



A few of us had a call this AM regarding the national club (I'm assuming now that we're going to make it happen).



It was felt that a truly independent, brand agnostic US club would probably be the best option, with no dues initially (only event fees, if at all), and an online newsletter (to elimintate printing and mailing costs).



Affiliation with the L7C of the UK would be not be adjunct, but rather parallel, with a member of the USA club serving as liason to L7C UK. Similar affiliations would be forged with the Westfield club, etc.



Many details to sort out still (like a name?, can we use "7" or "Seven" in any form, etc.), but some good direction and input.



Would love to hear from more people as well as drum up more forum activity here. I think Mazda's built a great resource for us all and we should all take advantage of it as much as possible.



People interested in being regional reps for this fledgling Seven club please step up.

[slngsht]

To add to Al's post above:



1- I have gotten a club insurance quote.



2- I'm looking into what it takes to form the club organization. <strong>If any of you have experience with setting up a small independent club</strong>, please PM or email me.



I'm pretty excited about the momentum here, and I'm actively working on additional enhancements to the site to make it better.



Al has helped greatly with some graphic and editorial work on the 7-7-7 registration page already, and has offered up some assistance on banner and home page designs http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/hurray.gif

[Al Navarro]

Jeremy....I finally heard back from teh L7C UK.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Let's just say that there are more people signed up for 7-7-7 than there are US members of L7C.

[Al Navarro]

Also, I think we're fine using 7 in the club name (from a legal POV), especially since we're decidedly not-for-profit.



Yes, I have spoken with the UK factory.

[slngsht]

Are there any accountants here? We need some professional advice with setting up the club.



I have one, but would prefer a volunteer to keep club costs down. Email me off the list.

[Al Navarro]

A lawyer would be good too. To look over the various sundry docs.

[slngsht]

I contacted The Company Corporation, which I had used 7 years ago to serve as my agent in DE for my LLC.



They recommended we form in one of the states where one of the members live. I gave them a choice among NY, NJ, MO, and MD.



NY: She laughed - she said it's a nightmare

NJ: She said they require alot of info

MO: Requires signatures from 3 officers (same as NJ)

MD: No special requirements.



The charge $640 for doing all the paperwork for incorporation, basic by-laws, which we'll have to review and modify, which includes the state fees ($240).



I'm not tied to them, but had a good experience with them last.



Next, I'll look through the IRS site and MD's site and see what's involved. I suspect it's not a whole lot of work, and since I already have a residence here, we don't need a proxy, so we can save $400 and do it directly.

[Al Navarro]

Mazda-



Count me in to split the fees. Perhaps we solicit a "founders board" where a few folks chip in to minimize the out of pocket for any one individual. I'm good on MD inc.



-Al

[snettleship]

I would certainly contribute to the cause.&nbsp; I also live in NC if that makes for a better legal situation....

[Old Yellow]

Don't forget if you want to be a "non Profit" in the eyes of the Feds and want a IRS ID number it's another $500 to get the 501c7 exemption but you can skip that if you dont get too big. You only need to file a tax return if you take in over $25k.



I filed it a couple of years ago on our 30 year old auto-x car club as they had the state exemption/incorporation but not the federal and I found it out when I took over the lifetime treasurers job. We do take in over 25k a year si I file a tax return.

[slngsht]

Thanks Joe. I have to look into the additional $500.



Are you going to drag out old yellow to the tail of the dragon next year? We'll be holding an autox as well. How far is that from you?

[Old Yellow]

I don't drive it on the street so I won't be there. It's strictly a auto-x car. It's also not comfortable for a 6'3" driver. I have to keep my foot on the clutch pedal all the time.

[slngsht]

I would certainly contribute to the cause. I also live in NC if that makes for a better legal situation....



I will ask about NC. Al and I are supposed to meet this Saturday (kids and wives in tow), and we will discuss a bunch of topics related to both the club and the 7/7/7 event. My hope is that starting next week, we can start moving forward with forming the club.



One topic is to figure out how much is needed to get this off the ground. Al and I are both committed to pitch in and pay some of the upfront costs.



Our current thought is to split the club startup costs based on costs that would be required for the 7/7/7 event (such as insurance), vs. pure club costs (such as incorporation) - so we can keep the event costs reasonable for those who'd like to attend the event, but not be club members. Of course, that will be dictated by terms of the insurance policy regarding non-members attending the event.



Anyway, eventhough the topic has quieted down somewhat, we've been collecting input from others (Tony V and JohnCH), which has been of GREAT help.



I'll keep everyone posted, and will probably post something over the weekend.

[slngsht]

Al and I met on Saturday, at the Baltimore Aquarium. Between looking after the kids, getting splashed by dolphins, beer and dinner, we managed to discuss the club and the 7/7/7 event. Al will post up regarding our event discussions in that thread.



For the club, we will incorporate shortly. We still need a name ("United Sevens of America???"), need to have a mission, logo, etc...



We will need at least a President and a Sec/Treasurer.



Our thoughts (some of which Tony V and I discussed as well) is that the members should own the club. Therefore, what we would like to setup is that each member who joins, gets one share (and one vote) in the club. We propose a class of founding members who for a higher fee, get 10 shares - this is needed to get the upfront incorporation and setup costs taken care of. Officers will be nominated and voted for annually by the club "shareholders".



I don't have a total line item of all related costs for the first year yet, but I figure it will take &lt;$1000 to incorporate and pay the nonprofit fees, a few hundred for insurance, and some other misc. costs... so if we have 7 "founding members" @ $200 each, we should be able to get the club off the ground, and additional membership fees (which will be MUCH lower) can help fund ongoing costs.



We also think the club should have regional event coordinators to get the members out on drives, etc... That's what the club is there for http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/smile5.gif Related to that, and according to our coverage, we need to come up with some guidelines for what types of events can be done by the club.



We talked about a number of secondary topics, such as using the club for vendor discounts, group purchases, etc, as well as providing members with some forum bonuses, such as a home page, file upload capability, etc...



The club newsletter will be electronic - at least in the beginning.



In all the above text, I say "we dicided" or "we will", but that's just so the text is not so passive. These are all things that we discussed in our brainstorming, and we would like to get everyone's feedback.



As I hope JohnCh and TonyV can testify, we are totally open to other ideas on how to proceed.

[solder_guy]

I'll throw in some $$.



Rob Mitchell

[stevet]

I'm happy to get involved. Just don't ask me to do anything technical,
computerwise. Not sure about 'United Sevens of America,' but then, I'm
a Brit...



Steve.



PS: I think I just did that double post thing again. Bugger.

[slngsht]

Steve, deleted the double post http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/smile5.gif ... I'm a totally non-creative person, so if you have other name and any logo ideas, fire away.

[solder_guy]

... so if you have other name and any logo ideas, fire away.



Seven States



North America Sevens



Coast to Coast Sevens



Sevens Coast to Coast



Left Drive Sevens



Open Road Sevens



Big Country Sevens



Red White and Blue Sevens



Winding Road Sevens



Western Hemisphere Sevens



Southern Sevens



Sevens Across AMerica (SAM)



Rob Mitchell

[stevet]

Not sure I understand the last one 'Rob Mitchell' ?&nbsp;http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/biggrin5.gif



I quite like North America Sevens (maybe add Club to it? - NASC?). The good thing is it's more inclusive (morning Canada).



Steve.

[Al Navarro]

How about "Seven Nation"



I'm reluctant to go with North American Sevens because it's a little too close to the UK nomenclature and also because I think it could sound like a commercial entity (which would be bad for us in terms of using the Sevens verbiage as owned by Cat UK).



I think in the end, we should narrow down to a few favorites, then post a poll for all.

[solder_guy]

Not sure I understand the last one 'Rob Mitchell' ?*http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/biggrin5.gif



That last one is a local club of one! http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/biggrin5.gif



Rob M.

[snettleship]

Other ideas....
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Seven Inspired Cars of North America (SICNA)
Seven Inspired Cars of America (SICA)
Seven Inspired Cars of the States&nbsp;(SICOS-want&nbsp; a club pronounced sickos?)
Four Wheel Flyers&nbsp; (Probably too close to the UK magazine)
North American Seven Inspired Cars&nbsp; (NASIC)</DIV>
<DIV>Sevens Car Club of America (maybe SCCA is already taken?)</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>

[slngsht]

Scott, I like the "Seven Inspired" concept alot. It is inline with what we're about.

[slngsht]

couple more ideas... focusing on the people rather than the car:



Seven Enthusiasts Club

Hard Core Seveners' Club



I will put up a poll tomorrow night based on what has been put forth, so we can pick something. Things are moving along with other prep work, and club name is the very first question on the forms.

[Al Navarro]

I am gravitating toward the "inspired" ones...



How about Seven Inspired Car Klub (SICK).



I dig that. We'd become knows as the Sickos or Sickies. As in "The Sickos hit the Dragon again and were in rare form...."



I've always liked the "The Black Ear Club" (what happens when you drive a Seven with the top down.



Or, "Friends of Colin Chapman"



Or "North American Four Wheeled Motorbike Club"



Or maybe I should go back to work now.

[stevet]

Very important client in reception, Al: off you go.



While trawling through my list of seven related sites this morning, one
is always the easiest to find; this one. The simplicity of USA7s is
worth thinking about in terms of a club name. But it's Mazda's site, so
he should have first say on whether he would want that considered. Just
a thought.



Steve.

[jfgw]

I agree with Steve - usa7s is an excellent name and is already well-known by the core group of followers.
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>James</DIV>

[slngsht]

I'm definitely open to usa7s being used.



Al, what are your thoughts on that? I'm sure we talked about this before, but I don't remember why we didn't go with it. I think Caterham was OK with a non-profit fan site??

[slngsht]

I've always liked the "The Black Ear Club" (what happens when you drive a Seven with the top down.





http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/rofl.gif I had definitely noticed that.

[powderbrake]

<strong>North American Sevens Club</strong> both says where we are and what we are all about. It is all inclusive and definitive.
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I would not worry about Caterham, as even if they have copyrighted the word "seven" as applies to their product&nbsp;in the US ( which may or may not be true), we are not building, selling or marketing a competitive vehicle of that name. We are merely a club which is interested in seven inspired vehicles, just like a Ford club, an Impala club, or the Corvette Forum. Our organization will&nbsp;embrace both Lotus Sevens, and Caterham Sevens.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><strong>USA Sevens Club</strong> is also a good name for the same reasons as above.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Once a name is selected and the club is incorporated (you might want to investigate incorporating as a "Social Club" to avoid&nbsp;onerous tax details that come from a non-profit which&nbsp;provides a service to a non-member), the entire name could be the website address, and anyone Googling "Sevens" will be able to find it.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I surely hope this great website remains as the "home" of the club.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>

[solder_guy]

USA7s works for me .. just not inclusive with Canadians .. or Mexicans.



Rob Mitchell

[slngsht]

Jerry, thanks. The intention is to file the club as a "social club" under IRS 501(c)(7) as a nonprofit organization. And this site will remain as the home. More enhancements will be made to accomodate club members and club activities. http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/cheers2.gif

[No_6]

I believe powderbrake is correct about the use of '7.' In my experience in marketing and advertising, there are just some things you can not copyright. The numeral 7 falls into that category. Microsoft had this problem with "Office." If they were able to copyright Office, they could have sued the makers of the movie "Office Space" and the show, "The Office."

BTW, how many Canadians and Mexians on this board? Anyhow, I like the sound of either USA7 or NA7, with a preference towards NA7... sounds less jingoistic. Just .02 from a newbie.

[slngsht]

Alright, the pole is open for picking a name:

>http://www.usa7s.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=179 (http://www.usa7s.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=179)

[anthonyseven]

<font color=blue><p>Hi all,</p>

<p>...Affiliating with a club in England would do us no good from this standpoint.* IMHO, this reason alone is enough to*reject the idea. Perhaps some kind of affilitation with Lotus Ltd would be possible.* I intend to talk to some folks about that at LOG this year (10 miles from home!).* Failing that, I'm not sure how to crack this nut.* What are those of you organizing the 7-7-7 meet next year doing about liability?* Being responsible for an event held on public roads would make me very nervous indeed without some kind of liability insurance......</p></font>





Folks,



I totally agree with Bernie on this one, so I'll add my 2 cents to his.



I see no advantage in affiliating ourselves with a one-marque club on a different continent. They might be a wonderful bunch of guys, but we already have several wonderful groups here on our side of the pond.



The reason here is the people. Not good, or bad, but proximity!



Please, if I am wrong, someone set me right! But the case has simply not been made that there is greater value in affiliating with the UK group. Sure, there is a lot of technical knowledge available, but we already get that through the internet. The vast majority of us here in the USA will rarely have the opportunity to share a blat with those guys. Or meet for beer and pizza. If I can't ever hang with them, what's the point?



On the other hand, Lotus Ltd. has already established a lot of the things I'd like to see in a club. For example, local chapters, a national meet with factory recognition, liability insurance, and a regular newsletter!



I would suggest that you guys join Lotus Ltd, find a local chapter to hang with, or else start your own local chapter. Please, attend LOG this coming October. There is a larger Lotus community out there, and it would be sad if any one of us fails to tap into it. If you don't like Lotus Ltd for whatever reason then there are other Lotus clubs here in the USA that you could tap into. I just happen to be a member of the Indianapolis chapter of Lotus Ltd so that is what I am familiar with.



The reverse also works. If we can enrich the sevens community by starting a new club from scratch, then why can't we enrich the whole Lotus community even more by standing on their shoulders?



&lt;rant warning&gt;



I love the exhuberance I see in this group, but I worry that it might be a little about "Control?"



It would very sad, if that is the case, because I know that most of the old Lotus guys would really welcome us all. The car hobby does not need more Balkanization! I've had enough of the "rodders hatin the ricers" and the "corvette greybeards hatin the Porsche guys" and all that other nonsense. At least, all of Chapman's legacy should be united in the same community.



Believe me, there aren't many snobs left in the Lotus ranks now, they have mostly sold their Esprits to real enthusiasts and moved on to newer bling.



&lt;end of rant&gt;



I'll probably join whatever club you folks come up with, regardless of its affiliation or lack thereof; however, I <strong>know</strong> from personal experience that we would all be well served by reaching out to the existing Lotus community in our own backyard.



Bernie, we've got at least .04 between us now...



Tony

Indianapolis

'99 Birkin

[slngsht]

Tony, We did take Bernie's advice, as well as those from JohnCh and quite a number of other folks, and have decided to form this club as a standalone club rather than having any formal affilition with any other club. Having said that, we do plan on reaching out to brand specific clubs (here and in UK) by making sure we share event info, stories, etc... with them (and vice versa).



I'm not going to address the snob factor of any particular club - that's just the type of thing we will avoid here.



Hope this explains our direction a little bit.

[slngsht]

To add to my previous point, we did explore the benefits of affiliation - we would still have to have our own club insurance for events.

[anthonyseven]

Tony, We did take Bernie's advice, as well as those from JohnCh and quite a number of other folks, and have decided to form this club as a standalone club rather than having any formal affilition with any other club. Having said that, we do plan on reaching out to brand specific clubs (here and in UK) by making sure we share event info, stories, etc... with them (and vice versa).



I'm not going to address the snob factor of any particular club - that's just the type of thing we will avoid here.



Hope this explains our direction a little bit.







Yes, it does. Thank you.



I would like to learn more about what you hope this club will be. In other words, what is the purpose of the club? Specifically? From the discussion so far, the purpose would seem to be events like 7-7-7.



I don't think the answer to this question is obvious. I am presently a member of several different car clubs. Each of them has a different focus. In a sense, I had a different reason for joining each of them. Each one provided me with some connection to the hobby that the others did not. Why would I join this one?



For some folks, it would be reason enough to merely identify with other seven owners. I'll probably join for that reason alone, but I am betting that you've got more in mind.



What will make this club unique?

[anthonyseven]

To add to my previous point, we did explore the benefits of affiliation - we would still have to have our own club insurance for events.





Yes, as a separate club we would have to provide our own insurance. It was not my intent to imply otherwise.



Tony

[slngsht]

These are very good questions. I hope we can formulate all the answers in the next few weeks.



This whole club discussion, as well as the 7/7/7 discussion started when a handful of us (who had never met before) got together and went on a weekend cruise to Skyline drive in VA. While there, we talked about a 2nd event (I believe we first talked about that as I was getting a speeding ticket http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/lol.gif ), and later on, Al came up with the 7/7/7 idea, which has taken off pretty well.



A club (and insurance) is a necessity for organizing an event like 7/7/7.



I can only speak about what I hope this club will become. My hope is that it'll spur more get-togethers, greater enthusiasm for our cars (if that's possible), a place (speaking of the forum) to share car stories, technical know-how, etc..., and hopefully a great way to help new owners feel immediately at home. Having a national club with regional coordinator will enable usage of the insurance coverage at the local level.



I'm one of those corvette graybeards you mentioned http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/biggrin5.gif, and the benefits I got out of the online forums added SO MUCH to the owning experience. Actually, having a strong online community really helped my decision to buy the vette. (By the way, I totally see the snobish stuff you talk about - even among generations of the same car).



As for what makes it unique - there is nothing here that someone else couldn't repeat I guess. We plan to be TOTALLY open to all LSiS cars. I'm committed to making our online community the best there is. Other than that, it's up to everyone contributing here to decide what we're about. That's the purpose of this thread.

[Al Navarro]

In terms of affiliations with any existing clubs, here's my POV. And again, it's just one guy's view.



I am personally a member of the UK/International Lotus 7 Club. And I will keep paying that annual fee even in light of the terrible exchange rates until my wife makes me stop. Mostly because I like the magazine, Low Flying. I rarely use blat chat, although it did help me sort out the speedo dip switches. Also, if I ever visit the UK, I want to rendez with some folks over there and perhaps visit the factory...and I think being, quite literally, a "card carrying member" would aid my cause.



So this whole thing started out because I was looking at their chapters and wondered why we didn't have a US one. However, there are a few issues with that...for starters, Low Flying is basically just for Loti and Caterhams. Rare is the inclusion of a Westfield, Birkin, or Locost in their coverage. Additionally, part of the dues (which I'm fine with paying, mind you) goes toward insurance for events, both large and small. And that insurance does not travel to the US.



Additionally, there are a handful of purists over there who might publicly (and no doubt privately) frown about the dilution of the bloodline with us marque-inclusive colonials. For anyone who thinks I am fanning the flames of "balkanization", I recommend you lurk on the lotus list of se7ens.net and see what some folks have had to say about our gathering at Tail of the Dragon. If anything, I think I have an extremely open POV. After all, I am a member of L7C UK, as well the US Lotus Ltd. Club. And I'll be a member of whatever transpires of the USA7s club.



More on Lotus Ltd. in the next post.

[Al Navarro]

Regarding Lotus Ltd. Again, I am a member. And plan to be for a long time. But I joined because it was a requirement for joining the LEO posse (Lotus Enthusiasts Org, my local NY/NJ club).



And again, I'm fine with paying the dues there. Remarque is an okay pub...not as nice as Low Flying in my book, but at least it has ads from US suppliers! And I like the people I've met through it so far. But...really, I'm MUCH less interested in Elans and Esprits than I am in Ultralites and Stalkers, etc. And unless Tony throws another LOG in the NY area, I'll probably not make it to their big annual gathering.



So, to me, the point of the new USA7s club is about focus. The focus is on the various and sundry "four wheeled motorbikes" inspired by that first 7 back in 1957. On adding lightness. On building your own (which, need I remind people, was a key thing to Colin Chapman back in the day).



Instead of representing a small portion of a group meet like LOG, cars like yours will represent 99% of the field. Perhaps down the road, we'll have a register and directory, where travelers coming North in their Ultralites can get travel tips and vehicle support from a Birkin owner on their route. And so on and so on. Kumbaya.



[THE FOLLOWING PARAGRAPH IS NOT 100% CORRECT: SEE MAZDA'S POST BELOW REGARDING DUES]



Finally, and really, I do have a day job that I need to get back to, I think we're trying to make this a club with NO DUES (at least initially, and really for as long as we can), and support the various events that could happen down the road through event-specific fees. We'd have a newsletter that's online only to start (zero printing costs). And this no-dues point is what makes it all a no-brainer really. If it doesn't cost you anything, and you get something out of it...isn't that good? People have commented on the logic of paying dues to a UK club whose insurance doesn't cover us and whose scope is much narrower than the great American melting pot we have over here. They've got a point.



[END OF PARAGRAPH]



Oh wait, one more thing. Really. I think our little niche hobby and gathering next July are going to have a lot more eyeballs on them in the months leading up to 7-7-7. The Locost write up in Car and Driver was great and I think that momentum will continue. So it is important that we do things right and talk things out among ourselves.



[Sound of Al getting down from soapbox]<edited><editID>Al Navarro</editID><editDate>2006-08-24 08:14:41</editDate></edited>

[slngsht]

Al, believe it or not, we have to have dues to be a nonprofit club. Per IRS

Support by Membership Dues Required: In general, a club should be supported solely by membership fees, dues, and assessments. A section 501(c)(7) organization may receive up to 35 percent of its gross receipts, including investment income, from sources outside of its membership without losing its tax-exempt status. No more than 15 percent of this amount may be derived from the use of the club's facilities or services by the general public or from other activities not furthering social or recreational purposes for members. If an organization has non-member income that exceeds these limits, all the facts and circumstances will be considered in determining whether the club continues to qualify for exempt status.



The dues will be minimal, or could be rolled into the 7/7/7 fees for those attending (there is another issue that I have to investigate with the insurance carrier regarding any restrictions on % of non-members attending a club event).



At any rate, the idea is to keep club overhead (in terms of funds, meeting requirements, etc...) to an absolute minimum (eliminate where possible).

[powderbrake]

I am ok with dues, and we must&nbsp;take into account&nbsp;that the attorneys who set this up must be paid.
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>like slingshot, I am a Corvette Forum greybeard, and I know how invaluable a forum with 1,300,000 threads and 18,000,000 posts can be. In the meantime, USA7s is on it's way to becoming THE website for 7's</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I am a Lotus Ltd. member, and see no conflict or reason to abandon them, perhaps we will get some of them to join this group. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I believe the electronic newsletter is a better choice for this club, to keep costs down, and whatever the name chosen for the club....... I like it.</DIV>

[stevet]

Having been a seven owner both in the UK and now here, I can confirm
Al's earlier comments; The UK Lotus/Caterham community often looks down
on other seven inspired marques as 'not the real thing' The arguement
goes along the lines of 'Lotus was the original seven, the Caterham is
a continuation of the original, and everything else is a copy of a
seven.' Some&nbsp; folks - a minority I suspect - get quite vocal on
the subject, others keep their heads down and just enjoy thier cars.
Since moving to the 'States I have enjoyed the fact that this is not
really an issue, and that the focus is on the cars, the drivers, the
adventures etc., and not on provenence. Let's keep it that way.



Steve.



PS: not like me to dissagree with Al, but I'm not sure the 'build it
yourself' thing was the key motivation for Chapman. The Seven was
originally sold as a kit to avoid 'purchase tax' which was applied to
sports and luxury cars back then (and was 50% on top of the retail
price). As always with Chapman, he came up with a way to solve a
problem that no one had dared try, and upset the governing body in
doing so. I'm no historian, but that's what I was told.

[Al Navarro]

Steve, I think you are quite correct regarding the reason for CKD kits being offered. That said, Chapman seems to have had quite the "DIY" bug himself...from his days of turning an Austin into something he fancied rather more.

[slngsht]

Alright, moving past the name, we need text for definition of a LSiS, Purpose of the club, Membership, etc... I'm throwing these as I write them. Please discuss.



Definitions

A LSiS is defined as ???? My definition: mid-front engined (engine in front, but fully behind the front wheel center line), rear wheel drive, v8, 2 seater, cycle type or winged front fenders, front and rear wheels fully outside the main body. (OK, V8 = http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/biggrinjester.gif ).



Purpose

The purpose of [name] is to enhance LSiS ownership experience, promote camaraderie through regional and national activities and events, and encourage favorable interest in LSiS and the club.



Membership

Membership in this club shall be limited to any person who meets all the requirements specified below:

•&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Has paid current membership fees to the club treasurer

•&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Has completed the club membership application form



AND, falls into one of the following categories:



•&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Charter Members. still have to word this one… There are between 6-9 charter members who committed to split the upfront costs of club formation.

•&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Active Members. Active membership shall be restricted to current or past owners, lessees, or co-owners of LSiS, who are 18 years of age or older.

•&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Family Member. A person, 18 years of age or older, joining in conjunction with an active or associate member. A family member must reside in the same house as the active member.

•&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Associate Members. A person, 18 years or older who has never owned a LSiS but has an interest in ownership. Associate members enjoy all the benefits of the club except they cannot vote, hold elective office or designate a family member.

•&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Honorary Member. Any person who, on the affirmative vote of the Board of Directors, is deemed to merit recognition for outstanding interest in or service to the club. Such membership shall be limited to one year but may be renewed upon the affirmative vote of the Board of Directors. Annual dues are waived for that year.



Expulsion of any member will require 2/3rds vote by the general membership of the club. The unexpired portion of the expelled member’s dues shall be refunded, and the member’s name shall be deleted from the membership rolls by the treasurer.



<edited><editID>slngsht</editID><editDate>2006-08-24 18:24:53</editDate></edited>

[locostv8]

Might I give a couple of thoughts.&nbsp; First I totaly agree to the
LSiS theme with the only possible exception being show classes in all
other cases a member is a member.&nbsp; Corvette grey beards have
nothing on the Cobra faithful, look at
http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/index.php sometime (original vs real vs
clone vs replica vs kit vs scratch build (makes your head hurt)).



...Definitions

A LSiS is defined as ???? My definition: mid-front engined (engine
in front, but fully behind the front wheel center line), rear wheel
drive, v8, 2 seater, cycle type or winged front fenders, front and rear
wheels fully outside the main body. (OK, V8 = http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/biggrinjester.gif ).




http://www.msnusers.com/_Secure/0VAAAABkZ8R3DGG4fZt8LkSUf83I2fBcaoQGQwT3DxzHOaNLPS 2ulkq0ody*EmtI1Mx8EpPwPVarCM3g%215v4MGd3e07N0lYkJk 2CushyII8XooRUnTZ2PyK2MJXI7KwoW/RS06%20tuners%20GP.jpgdc=4675582586459856627" height="480" width="640



Then



<font color="#000066">The DAX
Rush - Car engine format(engine option 4cyl - V8s), is available in De Dion
(main Price List), IRS &amp; 4 x 4 (Quadra)(Price list supplement). All use
Sierra 'running gear', the 4 x4 specifically uses Sierra Cosworth 4 x 4
'running gear'



Might I suggest simply "Description - A Front-Mid engined car that is,
or is inspired by, Colin Chapmans Lotus 7 which itself was post WWII
British hill climb special."&nbsp; There could be verbage somewhere
that if a car is in question the situation would be resolved on this
website by a pole of the members.&nbsp; If there is an objection to a
paticular car by a member it is submitted to the board.&nbsp; If
the board agrees&nbsp; that there is a valid question then the member
posts a description and pictures of the car and the membership votes
over a 30 day period, a simple majority wins.



</font>... Associate Members. A person, 18 years or
older who has never owned a LSiS but has an interest in ownership.
Associate members enjoy all the benefits of the club except they cannot
vote, hold elective office or designate a family member...



<p ="Msonormal">A dues paying enthusiast member should be a dues paying member should be a
member in all respects, 1 dues = 1 vote.


State the names of the Charter members and that they are the board
during the
formative time period (12 mo?).&nbsp; To ensure that a member is
serious there
could/should be a statement that to be eligible to be elected to the
board,
past the formative period, they MUST have been a dues paying member for
at
least 1 dues period immediately prior to the election.&nbsp; The
members will
be smart enough not to vote in a poser.&nbsp; One of my pet theories is
that there should be a box that says either none of the above or a
negative vote for that person and a majoraty vote means just that for
that election.<o:p></o:p></p>



<edited><editID>locostv8</editID><editDate>2006-08-25 00:08:20</editDate></edited>

[slngsht]

Thanks for the input. I like your definition of LSiS better.



I'll wait for feedback on the Associate Member comment - I don't have a problem with dropping the Associate Member class, other than this: Without this class specifically written into the bylaws, any person can join. One of the IRS requirement is "limited membership required".



Now, reading the definition of "limited membership required" section, I think it just means that the club is not completely public:



Limited Membership Required: Another earmark of a social club is limited membership. A club that issues corporate memberships is dealing with the general public (the corporation's employees). Evidence that a club's facilities will be open to the general public (persons other than members or their dependents or guests) may cause denial of exemption. This does not mean, however, that any dealing with outsiders will automatically deprive a club of exemption.

[xflow7]

I like locostV8's LSiS definition as well.
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I read the Limited Membership Required statement&nbsp;to&nbsp;mean only that in order to benefit from the club, one must be a paying member; not&nbsp;that there needs to&nbsp;be any particular requirement that must be satisfied in order to become a member.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>But I may be wrong about that.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Dave</DIV>

[locostv8]

...Now, reading the definition of "limited membership
required" section, I think it just means that the club is not
completely public:





I would think a statemeent "restricted to Owners, past owners and
future owners" would be sufficent to pass the "limited membership
required" requirement.



The membership could be stated to include all interested members of the
immediate houshold who are 18 or older, but in elections 1 dues = 1
vote.



I have held for a long time that "None of the above" should be a valid
political statement.&nbsp; Think how long it would take in our national
political situation how long it would take to get the&nbsp; next pres
elected.

<edited><editID>locostv8</editID><editDate>2006-08-25 07:05:57</editDate></edited>

[slngsht]

K. Anyone have a problem with membership being limited to "past and current owners", and immediate household?

[Al Navarro]

I like the future owners sentiment, but if that messes things up and created an "associate" members level that overcomplicates, then we use your verbiage above.

[JohnCh]

Seems to me that limiting membership to people who have an interest in a se7en/7/seven/LSiS (whew!) should be restrictive enough for the IRS.&nbsp; After all, that is a pretty dams small percentage of the population.&nbsp;
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>-John</DIV>

[stevet]

I agree with Al, the 'future owners' sentiment (whatever the wordage)
is worth having - I remeber joining the UK club before I bought my
first Caterham so I could get a better impression of the likely
ownership experience, and the kinds of issues (and people!) I would be
dealing with.

[77R500]

<FONT color=#000066>Might I suggest simply "Description - A Front-Mid engined car that is, or is inspired by, Colin Chapmans Lotus 7 which itself was post WWII British hill climb special."&nbsp; There could be verbage somewhere that if a car is in question the situation would be resolved on this website by a pole of the members.&nbsp; </FONT>
<O:P></O:P>

<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Funny thing is that Caterham is not Lotus 7 or a car inspired by Lotus 7.&nbsp; Nearn bought the Lotus 7 tooling, parts, and the design rights from Chapman, and continued making, and evolving,&nbsp;the same car.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>And really the only cars truely inspired by Lotus 7 are Birkin and Westfield, and they have the legal bills to prove it.</DIV>

[Al Navarro]

Welcome 77R500 (are you the guy with the bona fide R500 in the Bay area?) If so, I think we've corresponded before.



I think there are some uber-purists who might argue that even Caterhams are not the genuine (and I own a Superlight myself) thing...that only cars breathed on by Colin C. himself are the real deal.



That said, the LSiS verbiage came from a kit car article from a while back, and seems to work for most folks. I mean, how could you not say that the "Rotus" was not inspired by the Lotus?

[77R500]

I think there are some uber-purists who might argue that even Caterhams are not the genuine (and I own a Superlight myself) thing...that only cars breathed on by Colin C. himself are the real deal.

That said, the LSiS verbiage came from a kit car article from a while back, and seems to work for most folks. I mean, how could you not say that the "Rotus" was not inspired by the Lotus?

<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Very true, a Caterham is not a Lotus, its a Caterham.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>The name Rotus is obviously a play on Lotus, but that says nothing about the car itself.&nbsp; The reality is that there are many, many, many&nbsp;front-mid-engined sports/racing car designs in the world, but very, very few, perhaps only four counting Lotus, that directly mimic the Lotus 7.&nbsp; Others that claim linkage to the 7 claim that they've come up with a better way to do it.&nbsp; Nothing wrong with that, but its not the same.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Don't think that's being "uber-purist", just accurate.</DIV>

[locostv8]

K. Anyone have a problem with membership being limited
to "past and current owners", and immediate household?

I agree with Al, the 'future owners' sentiment (whatever
the wordage) is worth having - I remeber joining the UK club before I
bought my first Caterham so I could get a better impression of the
likely ownership experience, and the kinds of issues (and people!) I
would be dealing with.



Yes, LSiS, 1 dues = 1 Member = 1 vote.&nbsp; Anything else creates a haves vs have nots.







...Corvette grey beards have nothing on the Cobra
faithful, look at http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/index.php sometime
(original vs real vs clone vs replica vs kit vs scratch build (makes
your head hurt))....





Might I suggest simply "Description - A Front-Mid engined car that is,
or is inspired by, Colin Chapmans Lotus 7 which itself was post WWII
British hill climb special."&nbsp; There could be verbage somewhere
that if a car is in question the situation would be resolved on this
website by a pole of the members.





&nbsp;

&nbsp;

Funny thing is that Caterham is not Lotus 7 or a car inspired by Lotus
7.&nbsp; Nearn bought the Lotus 7 tooling, parts, and the design rights
from Chapman, and continued making, and evolving, the same car.

&nbsp;

And really the only cars truely inspired by Lotus 7 are Birkin and Westfield, and they have the legal bills to prove it.




[QUOTE=>Brent Mills (http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/member.php?u=9454)&nbsp;



vbmenu_register("postmenu_420565", true);






<div ="smallfont">CC Admin/Member


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http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48363 ]
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<div id="postmenu_420565">

>Brent Mills (http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/member.php?u=9454)
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vbmenu_register("postmenu_420565", true);

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>http://www.clubcobra.com/stuff/camera.gif" height="16" width="22 (http://www.clubcobra.com/photopost/showgallery.php?ppuser=9454&amp;cat=500&amp;thumb=1)


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</td>
<td>&nbsp;</td>
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<div ="smallfont">
<div>Join Date: Jan 1999</div>
<div>Location: Duvall,
Wa</div>
<div>Cobra Make &amp; Engine: KMP286, 390FE</div>

<div>
Posts: 2,285
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<!-- / user info --><!-- message, attachments, sig -->







<!-- icon and title -->

<div ="smallfont">
http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif
<strong><strong>Respect, Respect, Respect!!!</strong></strong>
</div>


<hr style="color: rgb(209, 209, 225);" size="1">
<!-- / icon and title -->


<!-- message -->

<div id="post_message_420565">We
must respect each other around here, and many are simply sick of the
bickering which seems to revolve around Shelby, is it real, is it a
kit, and on and on and on…..Its BS. People should be able to ask
legitimate questions around h

[slngsht]

K. We all know what a Seven looks like - we're getting wrapped up in trying to put it down in words. I think LocostV8's "Inspired by Collin Chapman's Lotus 7" is very good, without getting into specifics of heritage, which I want to avoid. Any of us can look at a car from a block away, and tell if the criteria is met.



I'll comment on the rest later... gotta make a parts run.

[anthonyseven]

<FONT face=Helvetica size=2>Another car club I am a member of answered the "limited membership" question in a very useful and clever way...

Instead of setting the requirements for membership around car ownership, we set the requirements around behavior. This has worked quite well.

The requirements are:

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;* Age 18 years or older
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;* pay your dues
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;* follow the rules (ie remain in "good standing")

The rules are simple: don't do anything that undermines the purpose of the club, and follow the rules set forth for each event by the folks designated as in charge of the event.

This makes the club much more inviting to non-owners (wanabees) while still meeting the legal requirements and giving the club control over events. Members who don't comply can be terminated by a process defined in the by-laws. </FONT>

[77R500]

Its helpful to distinguish between car marketing vs. club functions.
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Particular car ownership shouldn't be a requirement for a club intended to provide for social interaction among Lotus 7 fans.&nbsp;&nbsp;And there's no need to describe any car, beyond saying its the Lotus 7 Fan Club.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>On the other hand, ownership of a particular car is important in a club intended to provide mutual technical assistance among its members.&nbsp; So a club intending, for example,&nbsp;to foster Lotus 7 technical support&nbsp;needs Lotus 7 owners as members.&nbsp; But here again, there's no need to describe anything beyond saying its the Lotus 7 Owners Club.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Trying to describe cars in a way that links them to a recognized legend like the Lotus 7 is just car marketing.&nbsp; And why does a club want to bother with that?</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>

[stevet]

I think Tony has a point. - base membership around behavior rather than
ownership (current or future). The fact is most people who join will
have a seven of some sort&nbsp; - common sense really - those that
don't are obviously interested or they wouldn't be here, and that's
fine by me.

[locostv8]

A thought about boards/etc.&nbsp; Would it not be appropriate that the
Founding members (the 6 to 9 members mentioned) be named in the club
charter as the founding members who will comprise the Board for at
least the first period.&nbsp; Charter members would be those who joined
after the founding members had created the club up to and including
7/7/7.

[locostv8]

Its helpful to distinguish between car marketing vs. club functions.
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Particular car ownership shouldn't be a requirement for a club
intended to provide for social interaction among Lotus 7
fans.&nbsp;&nbsp;And there's no need to describe any car, beyond saying
its the Lotus 7 Fan Club.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>
<div></div>
<div></div>
<div></div>
<div></div>
<div></div>On the other hand, ownership of a particular car is
important in a club intended to provide mutual technical assistance
among its members.&nbsp; So a club intending, for example,&nbsp;to
foster Lotus 7 technical support&nbsp;needs Lotus 7 owners as
members.&nbsp; But here again, there's no need to describe anything
beyond saying its the Lotus 7 Owners Club.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Trying to describe cars in a way that links them to a recognized
legend like the Lotus 7 is just car marketing.&nbsp; And why does a
club want to bother with that?</div>



I do think that is important to define what we are fans of LSiS or later you will get into the Cobra thing.

[slngsht]

All, alot of good points being discussed. I'm monitoring, but tomorrow is both my sons' b-days, so I'll have limited time on until Sunday.



LocostV8, we're thinking along those lines (maybe the names are not quite the same)

[Al Navarro]

I'm still catching up, but wanted to thank everyone for their input so far. Don't be shy!

[slngsht]

I've been pretty quiet on this topic for a couple of days, but work has continued.



Here's an update:



1- Al and I approached several members to become "founding members". These members were approached based on their involvement in the Seven community and/or usa7s, <strong>their belief in the inclusive nature of this club</strong>, experience in running a club, and their willingness to put in time and money required for all the upfront work in forming the club and covering the first year of insurance for club activities. These individuals are as follows (in no particular order):



stevet

JohnCh

Al Navarro

powderbrake

snettleship

tvacc

951n914

MichaelD

slngsht



2- Founding members will get 10 votes each - for the first 2 years only. Following the two year period, they will each get 1 vote, just like any other member. This plan will help launch the club and get its operations in order, while allowing pretty low membership dues for general membership.



3- The concensus on membership requirements is that LSiS ownership is NOT a requirement.



4- The current wording for the purpose of the club is:

The purpose of [name] is to enhance LSiS ownership experience, promote camaraderie through regional and national activities and events, create awareness, and encourage favorable interest in LSiS and the club.



We're only a couple of steps away from filing the paperwork http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/smile5.gif



Finally, thought contributions in this thread has helped guide where we are going - please keep it up.

[locostv8]

<p ="Msonormal">Some thoughts:



9 board members is a nice size for the board in an ongoing manner



The board at an annual meeting elects from the board members a chairman of the
board.



The board conducts all club business.



A private forum is set up for "Members Only" on which the minutes of
the board are published.&nbsp; The minutes are considered accepted at the end
of 7 days after posting if no challenge.



Any member may propose an action item for the board and if seconded by a second
member then the board takes timely action, the action may be to either accept,
decline, or study for action at the next board meeting.



Any member may challenge a board action and if seconded will be polled on
"Members Only" a 2/3 majority of those responding to the poll within
a 14 day period wins.



The board "May" post questions to the membership on "Members
Only" for comments or a poll.</p>

[Boxologist]

since the club is 7 inspired, it should be 7 board members. and i would expect 7 bored members once everything is ironed out http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/willy_nilly.gif



the rationale for desiring a 7 is whats at the crux of owning one. Its a sense of minimalism, performance, heritage, and individuality.

[Al Navarro]

DEAD HORSES BEATEN HERE.



Folks. I wanted to do one last check that people would rather not incorp as a North American Chapter of the L7C which is based in the UK.



From what I recall, the reasons against were:



•*Dues high for what is essentially a UK club (majority of events are over there, with a few on the continent and other former outposts of the empire)



• Part of dues pays for insurance, which may not travel across the sea (they may be willing to fund domestic insurance for us)



• Club mag (Low Flying, which I happen to love) is UK centric



• Club seems overly Lotus/Caterham-centric (they have been adamant that they are very marque friendly)



Apparently in the latest Low Flying (not yet arrived on our shores), there is some great article that supports the notion that "We'd much rather be the L7 Club international than be known as a purely a UK club."



The dues for the UK club are about $70 per year...our USA club intends to have minimal dues and fund itself primarily with events. Again, I'm a member of the L7C and intend to keep up that afiliation.



Please chime in.

[slngsht]

Update on club formation:



I finally managed to file the paperwork today. It will take a few weeks for formation to finalize since I didn't want to pay any expedite fees.



Between the day job and the kids' school work (and the dreaded commute) time seems to be very limited, but we're plugging ahead.

[slomove]

Yes, dead horses.....I do have an interest in the US Super Sevens Society (or whatever you guys will call it) and very little interest in L7CGB.



Gert

[slngsht]

Yes, dead horses.....I do have an interest in the US Super Sevens Society (or whatever you guys will call it) and very little interest in L7CGB.



Gert



Gert, based on this http://www.usa7s.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=179 I filed the club name as USA7s. Backup is USA Sevens.

[locostv8]

Yes, dead horses.....I do have an interest in the US Super Sevens Society (or whatever you guys will call it) and very little interest in L7CGB.



Gert



Metoo. I doubt that L7CGB would be very accepting of my car anyhow.

Jim

[magnusfeuer]

Magnus Feuer here...



I am the web admin of the California Caterham Club. We just opened a local discussion about joining a national club effort at:

>http://www.californiacaterhamclub.com/chat/showthread.php?p=4120 ( )



Please note that we haven't really started the debate yet, so anything I say at this point is my personal opionion only.



Are there any models for how to integrate local chapters and their web site (such as a California/Left coast one) into the motherrship site?



A simple link is the easiest solution, but we would then have fragmented forums and other possible overlaps. The other extreme is that we dump our website completely and simply redirect to the mothership. In this case we need to transfer all our old posts and logins to the mothership.



A look at NASA and their local regions shows that you can go from the central site to the regional while retaining the web design and page layot. The regional chapters seem mostly to organize the local events. Is this a model that we can adapt, or will the existing local clubs lose their identity?



Obviously this discussion needs to be carried out at two levels, within the local club and on a national level in this thread.



/Magnus F.

<edited><editID>magnusfeuer</editID><editDate>2006-09-07 11:21:57</editDate></edited>

[spindr]

Have a look at Lotus Ltd and their links to local chapters.

This would probably be a good model for you to consider.

http://www.lotuscarclub.org/localgroups.htm



Jeremy F.

[slngsht]

Magnus Feuer here...



I am the web admin of the California Caterham Club. We just opened a local discussion about joining a national club effort at:

>http://www.californiacaterhamclub.com/chat/showthread.php?p=4120 ( )



Please note that we haven't really started the debate yet, so anything I say at this point is my personal opionion only.



Are there any models for how to integrate local chapters and their web site (such as a California/Left coast one) into the motherrship site?



A simple link is the easiest solution, but we would then have fragmented forums and other possible overlaps. The other extreme is that we dump our website completely and simply redirect to the mothership. In this case we need to transfer all our old posts and logins to the mothership.



A look at NASA and their local regions shows that you can go from the central site to the regional while retaining the web design and page layot. The regional chapters seem mostly to organize the local events. Is this a model that we can adapt, or will the existing local clubs lose their identity?



Obviously this discussion needs to be carried out at two levels, within the local club and on a national level in this thread.



/Magnus F.





Magnus, that hasn't been discussed here either, other than really early discussions you and I had several months ago.



Since the Seven community is relatively small, I think one common Forum would be best. It really takes all the members signing on to one place to make critical mass and have a forum where everytime you log in, there is something new.



I'm not sure how we do that without thriving clubs losing their identity though. Perhaps we all share the forum in one central place, but have home pages separately??? In that case, how much traffic would the non-forum sites get?



For the record, vbulletin is the top dog in forum software, which is what you guys are using. Can you let me know offline what the cost structure for hosting is?



How many other US based 7 forums are there? locostusa.com is one, but that site has traditional 7 builds as well as other types of cars such as mid-engined cars.

[No_6]

Check out how the motorcycle club I belong to handled things: www.r1-forum.com.



The local clubs are called "Squadrons," each of which has it's own home on the larger site. That way local business/gatherings don't clutter up the general discussion areas. Works pretty well. Many of the local chapters have their own dedicated forums as well (ours is www.r1wolfpack.com). Yes, I know the names are a little on the corny side, but it does make for some cool looking logos/patches. http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/smile5.gif

[magnusfeuer]

Hmm.



We can do two different things, depending on the level of integration. We in the CA club can retain our local site (after migrating the forum to the national server), which means that there would be a link from www.whateversevens.com to www.californiacaterhamclub.com and our local content.



Another solution would be a subdomain (www.california.whateversevens.com) or a subdirectory (www.whateversevens.com/california) which is hosted on the national site and also has a design that is compatible with the main one. This would push more system administration work to the maintainer of the central site, but would also give the entire club, chapters and all, a more streamlined appearance on the web.



Compare >www.nasaproracing.com (www.nasaproracing.com), having completely integrated regions, with SCCA where >www.scca.com (www.scca.com) has a completely different feel than its SoPAC region at >http://www.scca-sopac.org/ (http://www.scca-sopac.org/)



I am trying to list our alternatives here, not push one option in front of the other.



/Magnus F.

<edited><editID>magnusfeuer</editID><editDate>2006-09-07 15:26:03</editDate></edited>

[slngsht]

Check out how the motorcycle club I belong to handled things: www.r1-forum.com.



The local clubs are called "Squadrons," each of which has it's own home on the larger site. That way local business/gatherings don't clutter up the general discussion areas. Works pretty well. Many of the local chapters have their own dedicated forums as well (ours is www.r1wolfpack.com). Yes, I know the names are a little on the corny side, but it does make for some cool looking logos/patches. http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/smile5.gif



The reason why local forums can be supported is that r1-forum has 62,492 members. At that kind of scale, even if 1% of the membership participates on the main forum daily, you have a pretty good flow of posts.

[roll a 7]

The CA site is four years old this month. It has taken most of that time to evolve into the active website that it has become. Most of us left coasters now use it regularly, especially those most committed to using their 7s. I am all for a national website and can see many possible advantages to all of us. My one concern is that I don't want the CA group to find a national site less useful than our present site, and thereby see the users drift off into the netherworld of..... The present site has become very useful for communicating with 7ers that I know and those I have not (yet) met.



Meeting even more 7ers on a national site is a good reason to move ahead. It will enable those who travel around the USA to meet up with fellow nutcase 7 owners in the other regions. If we can find a way that satisfies the various needs and desires of 7 owners and groupies across the USA it is the logical next step.

[slngsht]

The CA site is four years old this month. It has taken most of that time to evolve into the active website that it has become. Most of us left coasters now use it regularly, especially those most committed to using their 7s. I am all for a national website and can see many possible advantages to all of us. My one concern is that I don't want the CA group to find a national site less useful than our present site, and thereby see the users drift off into the netherworld of..... The present site has become very useful for communicating with 7ers that I know and those I have not (yet) met.



Meeting even more 7ers on a national site is a good reason to move ahead. It will enable those who travel around the USA to meet up with fellow nutcase 7 owners in the other regions. If we can find a way that satisfies the various needs and desires of 7 owners and groupies across the USA it is the logical next step.



So, roll a 7, are you in favor of having one forum? The way to keep the regional relationships going is through the regional sub sections of the forum, in my opinion. So you have technical sections, regional sections, general section (this is mostly non-technical car stuff), and off topic, for non-car stuff or other cars (not 7 related).

[slngsht]

Hmm.



We can do two different things, depending on the level of integration. We in the CA club can retain our local site (after migrating the forum to the national server), which means that there would be a link from www.whateversevens.com to www.californiacaterhamclub.com and our local content.



Another solution would be a subdomain (www.california.whateversevens.com) or a subdirectory (www.whateversevens.com/california) which is hosted on the national site and also has a design that is compatible with the main one. This would push more system administration work to the maintainer of the central site, but would also give the entire club, chapters and all, a more streamlined appearance on the web.



Compare >www.nasaproracing.com (www.nasaproracing.com), having completely integrated regions, with SCCA where >www.scca.com (www.scca.com) has a completely different feel than its SoPAC region at >http://www.scca-sopac.org/ (http://www.scca-sopac.org/)



I am trying to list our alternatives here, not push one option in front of the other.



/Magnus F.





Magnus, missed your post. what I said in my post above is similar to nasaproracing (integrated regional) you mention.



Personally I find the familiarity amongst the sections (even down to color schemes) makes the site easier to use.

[xflow7]

I think it's worth noting that some regional sub-fora already exist here in the form of the event forums here.



Roll a 7's concern about CCC losing its identity is very valid, but as far I can see the primary advantage a regional forum has over a national forum is reduced thread clutter re: small-scale local events and that is clearly covered by the existing regional event forums. For most other needs (tech. questions, tips, anecdotes, general BS-ing) a national site would seem to be to be preferable for exactly the critical mass reason Mazda cited. Plus, occasionally a regional event blossoms into a national affair (as Al and Gert know only too well!) and in that case having the event originally covered in a sub-forum of the national forum may make it easier to "promote" to national attention if warranted.



The regional event planning stuff could in principle be on a regional sub-site as opposed to sub-forum, but the point stands.



As for whether regional sites are sub-sites or just linked I think the pros and cons have been pretty well laid out and I don't think there's a clear winner, although I personally kind of like the notion of all the sites having the same look-and-feel with maybe a little provision for regional flair to keep it fun.



Dave<edited><editID>xflow7</editID><editDate>2006-09-07 17:20:07</editDate></edited>

[slomove]

For purposes of a stronger overall presence I would prefer a single web site as long as we West-Coasters maintain a regional sub-forum that contains all the sections which have become so valuable for us (events, local racing, chatter, local for sale). Then I don't see any disadvantage but one site less to check.



Gert

[slngsht]

by chatter do you mean Idle talk section? If so, that's the type of section that becomes so much more entertaining if there is 10X the number of people contributing.

I can definitely see events and racing being regional for most part (there should still be a national events section for a couple of the bigger events).

Parts for sale is another one where IMO national would be better than regional. Alot more parts to find as a buyer, or views to get as a seller.

[roll a 7]

I am in ageement with Gert. A national site is fine with me and a good idea which I have previously endorsed.



At this point I get a lot from our CCC site and don't want to lose any of that. The users now have a sort of ESPRIT d' Corps. Hopefully a national site will be similar.

[slomove]

by chatter do you mean Idle talk section? If so, that's the type of section that becomes so much more entertaining if there is 10X the number of people contributing.

I can definitely see events and racing being regional for most part (there should still be a national events section for a couple of the bigger events).

Parts for sale is another one where IMO national would be better than regional. Alot more parts to find as a buyer, or views to get as a seller.





I guess I kind of agree....but I think there is also a place for the regional idle talk of people who know and meet each other personally and which may be completely meaningless for others. I had thought a local "For Sale" might be meaningful for similar reasons but on second thought I agree a central place is better. After all, with UPS/FedEx something of value is just as easy to get from coast to coast as from LA to San Diego.



Gert

[magnusfeuer]

So the forum layout would be something like:



For Sale



Idle talk



Technical Questions



National events



Left Coast

--Events

--Local talk

--Joints, Bongs and Sevens



East Coast

--Local talk

--Manhattan pot hole slalom

--Events

--Snow chain racing



South

--...



CCC would migrate all posts and logins to the new national site and its software (which can be vBulletin if we transfer our license to you). We would redirect all traffic to www.californiacaterhamclub.com/chat to the national site's california forum.



The CCC site would then be redesigned to contain photos, videos, documents and articles from our local events.



We have at least one member (Clark) who is a good writer and sometimes publishes his work in Low Flying. Have we thought about a blog/newsletter section on the national site?



/Magnus F.

[locostv8]

You might want to fashion somewhat after http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/index.php or http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/index.php



The mech/builder/help possibly being a link to special interest groups or forums with a search that would look at each. Also a search that would allow enough qualifying to not bring back 4000 hits.

[slngsht]

So the forum layout would be something like:



For Sale



Idle talk



Technical Questions



National events



Left Coast

--Events

--Local talk

--Joints, Bongs and Sevens



East Coast

--Local talk

--Manhattan pot hole slalom

--Events

--Snow chain racing



South

--...



CCC would migrate all posts and logins to the new national site and its software (which can be vBulletin if we transfer our license to you). We would redirect all traffic to www.californiacaterhamclub.com/chat to the national site's california forum.



The CCC site would then be redesigned to contain photos, videos, documents and articles from our local events.



We have at least one member (Clark) who is a good writer and sometimes publishes his work in Low Flying. Have we thought about a blog/newsletter section on the national site?



/Magnus F.





This looks like a good plan to build on. I still have doubts about having too many idle talk forums - CCC has something like 200 members, USA7s has 115 - probably 20 overlap. Having a general,east,west,south idle talk section will leave us with alot of idle talk sections that may have just a couple of posts a day.



We do need to add sections that are club member only, and club officer only, for conducting club business, and presenting club finances, votes, etc... to club members.



I'm in agreement with everything else.

[slngsht]

One more thing... to address locostV8's post.



We need to think about technical sections. I can see the need for building and fabrication, drivetrain, chassis & suspension, and brand specific sections. Thoughts?

[soareyes]

One more thing... to address locostV8's post.



We need to think about technical sections. I can see the need for building and fabrication, drivetrain, chassis & suspension, and brand specific sections. Thoughts?



The Elise guys have their web site set up this way:



http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/index.php



Overall, the whole site is very well organized.<edited><editID>soareyes</editID><editDate>2006-09-08 07:12:03</editDate></edited>

[slngsht]

The Elise guys have their web site set up this way:



http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/index.php



Overall, the whole site is very well organized.



That's very similar to the way corvetteforum is setup. The challenge we face is that our cars are very diverse... anything from custom built jobs (LOCOST), to defunct brands (like Rotus) to the traditional Sevens (Lotus, Caterham and the others).



There is a wide variety of designs, drivetrain, etc... Elise or Corvette or most of the other guys don't have such diversity.

[Al Navarro]

Although I started this thread, Mazda and I have since agreed to mostly split responsibilities (me on 777, he on US Club...those day jobs sure get in the way!), but I wanted to chime in.



I just wanted to say that I think the dialog that's happening between the East and West right now is really inspiring and motivational (which I need cause I'm having a shite work week/month).



Whatever transpires, count me in to be the semi-official scribe for the East (as Clark is for the West) as well as being the semi-official liaison to the UK Club and even the Cat factory if you want (as I already have open lines of communication with both of those entitiies).



Perhaps, some time in the next few years, East will meet West in a national meet over 100 cars strong!

[locostv8]

My .02 would be a single Chat forum and possibly a link to http://locostusa.com/forums/index.php for tech. I like how Club Cobra has a forum for clubs and then within that the individual clubs for club and area specific items. Just a thought. I would bet as it became more indicated that they would add make specific forums. This would allow the culb to focus more on socal/chat/events and Locostusa on the technical.

[powderbrake]

I believe that brand specific sections are needed to allow specific questions like " where do I get a Master brake cylinder for a Caterham ( or Lotus or Birkin)"



This will allow specific questions on items unique to a particular brand, without having to search the Tech Section

[slngsht]

All, a quick update. We have finally filed all the necessary paperwork for the corporation and what's required to get a nonprofit status.



I haven't posted much lately, because dealing with IRS and the state goes at a very un-LSiS like pace.



There are a few more steps before the club can be officially "open".



Thanks for everyone's patience and suggestions.